مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : Saleh Abd al-Hayy 78rpm recordings of adwar (episode2)

26-04-2006, 10:33
A classic, interesting to compare with later renditions of the same dor by an ageing Saleh Abd al-Hayy

Dor / Qadd-e ma ahebbak za3lan mennak
Polyphon 42474/75/76/77

26-04-2006, 10:58
الله يستر عند هالصبح

26-04-2006, 11:56
Thanks Fred,

I think that this is what you meant in your episode about Saleh that he kept re-registering the same stuff. Although in the beginning his ajem asseyran in Garahny Lahthak is slightly modified 5'31' you feel he's hinting towards Rast rather than pure Ajem. And I loved the whole Garahny.

But I can see that he didn't re-invent a lot in his later recordings.

Maybe I'm wrong.

Also what's this "Allah Ya bu 3abdah" at the end? Funny!

أبو علاء
26-04-2006, 13:58
Thanks a million, Fred for this version, the third we have now of that magnificent dawr. Unfortunately, I can only listen to it tonight when I'll be back in my hotel.

Khair Ahmed
26-04-2006, 14:09
Un gros merci M.LAGRANGE

26-04-2006, 14:17
بنزله أهه بس خايف أسمعه في الشغل
بيوجعلي قلبي

26-04-2006, 17:17
جميييييل جدا ...ألف شكر لك أخ فريدريك وفعلا بيوجع القلب

أبو علاء
26-04-2006, 21:06
I agree that after listening to the three recordings we now have of this beautiful dawr sang by Salih 'abdi-l-hay, one can not but be struck by the lack of imagination. These cover a span of twenty to thirty years of chant and yet do not offer any sign of innovation or any kind of evolution whatsover. The only differences relate to the strength of Salih's voice at the three various stages, which would corrobrate a certain laziness at which Fred hinted when he mentioned his confining himself to a limited repertory he kept reinterpreting and rerecording. This is a pity because 'ammik Salih has long been my preferred singer of 'adwar.
Yet, among the three versions we have (Fred's, Najib's and mine) I prefer the latter not for a notable difference in the melody itself or in the improvisations and/or ornamentations but for the passion he put in that interpetation or, at least, that's what I felt.
Najib, I didn't catch the rast hint you talked about. I did notice instead bayati presence in the 'ahat section.

أبو علاء
27-04-2006, 10:47
نجيب، نسيت التّعليق على عبارة "اللّه يا بو عبدَه" ؛ لقد جاءت في إثر تقسيم قصير للقانون، لذلك قد يكون المقصود بها عبد الحميد القضّابي إذا ما كان هو المصاحب لصالح في هذا التّسجيل.

أبو علاء
27-04-2006, 23:55
فريديريك، لقد اجتهدنا قدر وسعنا في تبيّن الكلمات من خلال مختلف التّسجيلات، ومع ذلك ظلّ بعضها مبهما ؛ فهلاّ استخرجتها لنا من أحد مجلّداتك ؟

28-04-2006, 09:42
قد ما احبك زعلان منك
وليه ترضى بعدي (انا) عنك
اسمح بقى وتعالى اما اقوللك / واخلف ظنك
إن ما كان ده يكون خلينا منك

جرحني لحظك وهجرني قلبك
ما كانش أملي / عشمي الله يسامحك / يكافأك
اسمح بقى وتعالى اما اقوللك
الملام ده ليه يكفانا بعدك

ليه تهجرني وانا أسيرك
ياللي الملاح الكل عبيدك
اسمح بقى واترك عذولك
إن ما كان ده يكون خلينا منك

I don't agree with "ta3a amma aqullak" instead of "ta3ala", ta3a is shami, not Egyptian to my knowledge (at least not Cairene)
"amma", of course, means "lamma", it is quite common
"khallina mennak", although not common, seems to me very understandable, it is not "khall/ee/na" (fi3l madi) but "khall/ii/na" (sighat al-amr), and "khallik min" can be equivalent to "siibak min", اترك
So it means, "grant us your presence, and come when I ask you to join me, and if it is not the way you want it, well, in this case, leave us alone"
walla eh ?
Farid - Ya Hosti - el Bulaqi.

أبو علاء
28-04-2006, 11:12
Dear Fred, first of all thanks for the text. Now, I still have to disagree on one point.
Ta'a taken alone is obviously shami not Egyptian, but when in a phrase like this one "ta'a-mma-qullak" as a contracted form of "ta'ala 'amma aqullak", it is as far as I can see conceivable especially as such contraction becomes necessary for rythmic considerations as is the case here. And Salih does pronounce it that way even if it differs from Bulaqi's transcription.
Khallina minnak and your explanation of the whole verse looks instead convincing even though such expression is uncommon in Egyptian dialect. Another expression I find quite funny here to say "change your mind" is ikhlif dhannak. And this ikhlif dhannak is anyway not present in the recording you uploaded nor in 'ibrahim Al-hajjar version (unlike the two later versions recorded by Salih).
By the way, I'm using my free time in Sweden to read your thesis and I find it tremendously instructive. This is the first time I read such an informed and brilliant analysis of questions relating to classical Egyptian music and so many of my certainties or simply unquestioned statements are being unravelled. I just wanted to tell you I spotted a couple of errors in reading/transcribing and, thus, interpreting Shawqi's verses dedicated to Hamuli and maybe in a second peom (is it about 'abdi-l-hay Hilmi ? I'm not sure, because I didn't systematically noted everything, but I have them in mind) and if you so wish, I will indicate them to you. Tell me whether you use skype to make voice calls ? If you do, we could talk it over through skype.

28-04-2006, 11:56
sorry, no skype, but definitely waiting for the correction on the shawqi reading (that was 15 years ago...).
BTW, this is not a transcription taken from Mahmud al-Bulaqi, I just signed Farid al-Bulaqi after cooldoctor laughed at my "ya di el-hosa" previous comment on another trail, and asked me if I was born in Bulaq...

the source for the complete text was Habib Zaydan's "magmu3at al-aghani al-sharqiyya".

أبو علاء
28-04-2006, 12:07
In this case, I'll call you when I'm back home. I use prepaid phone cards that make it very cheap. I think it's better we discuss it de viva voce rather than in writing.
Sorry about Bulaqi. By the way, I wanted to ask you whether such compilations of lyrics are easy to find in Cairo bookshops nowadays. I could ask a friend to get me a few copies.

28-04-2006, 12:30
compilations of textes are not easy to find, the right thing to do is to find an honnest "kotobi", to give him a correct 3arbun (200 pounds for instance), and give him a long list of things to find. He then calls you back when he's found what you need.

أبو علاء
28-04-2006, 12:37
Unfortunately, you can do it when you're there. It is too complicated to ask a friend to do it for you.

28-04-2006, 12:39
Will you listen to the man?

Do that next time I "send" you to Cairo.

I'm sure the same applies for the Sono Cairo stuff!!!

أبو علاء
28-04-2006, 14:23
Ok, boss.:)

28-04-2006, 23:35
That was for Hakem! ;)

أبو علاء
29-04-2006, 05:48
Oops! Sorry.

02-05-2006, 16:51
Translate the thesis to Arabic pleeeeeeeeeeease

Nedaa' men Masri waheed ... (lonley ya3ny! )