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مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : محمود صبح



أبو علاء
14-05-2006, 18:14
أقدّم هذه المجموعة من أعمال هذا المطرب الملحّن تلبية لرغبة صديقنا عمرو ؛ والحقيقة أنّ ما أملكه من معلومات قليلة عن محمود صبح يشير إلى أنّه بالفعل كمأ ألمح عمرو نفسه إلى ذلك شخصيّة فنّيّة غريبة ؛ ومحمود صبح كما هو معلوم كان مكفوف البصر، وإذا ذكرنا كفّ البصر فإنّ أسماء لامعة عديدة تحضرنا منها علي محمود ومحمّد عمران وإمام عيسى (وكان يمكن أن أذكر سيّد مكّاوي وعمّار الشّريعي أيضا ولكنّي أرفض أن أنزّل هذين الأخيرين منزلة الأربعة السّابقين) ؛ فهل توجد صلة بين تلك الغرابة الّتي طبعت حياته الفنّيّة وبين كفّ بصره ؟
لا يمكن القطع برأي في هذا الأمر لا سيما إذا ما نظرنا إلى مسيرة الأعلام الآخرين الّذين ذكرناهم ؛ غير أنّ العمى كغيره من العاهات قد يكون حافزا على التّفوّق، وممّا لا شكّ فيه أنّ الشّيخ محمود صبح كان متفوّقا من حيث ثقافته وملكاته الموسيقيّة ؛ ولعلّنا نلمس بعض معالم ذلك التّفوّق في نسيج صوته وفي صياغة جمله الموسيقيّة وخروج هذه وذاك عن مألوف العصر (وأوجه الشّبه في هذهين الأمرين بينه وبين علي محمود تثير الدّهشة) ويبدو في الحالين الصّوت والجمل مشبعة بمؤثّرات غريبة قد تكون تركيّة.
من أوجه الشّبه بين شخصيّتي محمود صبح وعلي محمود أنّ الأوّل كالآخر ابتدأ قارئا للقرآن ومنشدا، سوى أنّ علي محمود لم يخرج عن ذلك بينما تحوّل محمود صبح للغناء الدّنيويّ كشيوخ القرن التّاسع عشر وأوائل القرن العشرين الّذين حدّثنا عنهم فريديريك.
ويبدو أنّ إنتاج محمود صبح اللّحنيّ كان غزيرا حتّى أنّه ينسب له من المقطوعات وحدها خمسة عشر سماعيا ولونغتين ؛ ولكنّ الأدعى للاهتمام في ألحانه حرصه الشّديد على الخروج على المألوف، بل الإغراب مثل تلحينه السّماعي على إيقاع الدّوري هندي بدل السّماعي الثّقيل أو تلحين بعض الطّقاطيق والمونولوجات من مقامات لم يطرقها غيره ولا ذكر لها إلاّ في كتب الموسيقى (مثل الطّقطوقتين الأخيرتين من هذه المجموعة).
وأخيرا وليس آخرا، يبدو أنّ محمود صبح كان ينظر نظرة اعتلاء وازدراء إلى أقوانه من المطربين والملحّنين.
هذا ما لديّ من معلومات، ولعلّ فريديريك يفيدنا بالمزيد كما لعلّ لديه المزيد من تسجيلات صبح أو نسخا أفضل لنفس هذه القطع الّتي نقلتها عن حلقة من برنامج ألحان زمان (وهي موشّح وقصيدة ومونولوج وثلاث طقاطيق).


This is to answer a request from our friend 'amr concerning Mahmud Subh recordings. I had previously uploaded a muwashah (Laha badru-t-timm) and a mawwal (Sultan jamalak) in the two stickies respectively dedicated to these two types of chant. Here are a some of his compositions interpreted by himself

fredlag@noos.fr
14-05-2006, 18:59
نظرا للمعلومات، فيوجد كتاب بعنوان
محمود صبح حياته وموسيقاه
تأليف ابنه محمد محمود صبح
مراجعة أحمد رامي
صدر عن الهيئة العامة للكتاب سنة 1980
الكتاب يحتوي على 143 صفحة، وشهادات بعض معاصريه وتلامذته ومحبيه، منهم أحمد رامي وعبد الحليم نويرة (قبح الله وجهه من عدو الله، كما نقرأ في الكتب القديمة) ومحمود حفني ألخ
نظرا للتسجيلات، ما في حوزتي محدود جدا ومتداول ولكن سأرفع قصيدة أحبها كثيرا وهي «تقضى زمان» التي اعتبرها رائعة.

3amr
14-05-2006, 20:51
according to the internet, Zavil is a turkish maqam composed of a Mahur maqam with an occasional Nikriz on rast, the second one however, I have never heard of it, and I still can't figure it out.

I'd like to thank Abu Alaa for being so swift with a response, I wish I could repay everybody's services here.

أبو علاء
14-05-2006, 21:13
Dear 'amr, you don't have to repay anybody for anything. You know the principle in this forum is that each of us contributes what they have and can avail theirself of all what is contributed by the others regardless of how substantive or how poor is the contribution of one or the others. This forum is all but a trading place and the greatest payback we aim at is the pleasure our forum mates get from what we contribute.
The nakriz nuance is what I first grasped in that zawil taqtuqah. As for 'awij, I sensed a sikah hint therein and I think that it has to do with 'awj that is the sikah jawab.

Hattouma
15-05-2006, 23:52
عمرو حلقة ألحان زمان اليوم كانت حلقة محمود صبح (معادة كالعادة...) كنت أظنها ستخصص للحامولي في ذكراه و لكن يبدو أن ذكرى الشيخ صبح أيضاً هذه الايام

3amr
16-05-2006, 06:02
Too bad I don't know how to receive it here in lebanon.

أبو علاء
16-05-2006, 09:32
The fact that you are in Lebanon is not a problem to listen to the Egyptian radio (and record from it) as long as it's broadcasting online:
http://live.sis.gov.eg/live
'alhan zaman is broadcast weekly on Monday at 23.45 Cairo time and Saturday at 13.10.
I will soon upload some of the pieces recorded yesterday.

Najib
16-05-2006, 11:31
100% Correct about the Awj stuff, and if you want to google for it 3amr google under evc.

I'm afraid google's mathematical search engines will fall on their knees when it comes to the pronounciation of Trukish maqams (Khayyy) :-)

3amr
16-05-2006, 13:00
for those of you who hate google, be happy, europe is launching a new search engine to fight off google, it will be named Quaero, with a big emphasis on multimedia searching.

I can receive the station now, but the sound quality is terrible, I mean, my connection can easily handle a 32kbit connection, instead of this 16.

as for turkish maqams, they are a number one priority when I get settled (I'm planning on Germany, and as you know, lots of turks there, there must be at least one of them who teaches Kanun), then I can finally figure out what sheikh soboh is doing all the time.

AmbroseBierce
16-05-2006, 21:23
You're planning to go to Germany? And study Turkish music at the same time? Then I'd propose you come to Berlin and enroll in the Conservatory of Turkish Music run by Nari Karademirli. He is not as good on oud anymore as he used to be (he was a long time student of Sherif Muhiddin Targan), but he is running a first class school for music - both beginners and advanced students with choir, classes for solo voice and all kinds of instrumental training. He's got a number of very good kanun players around.

أبو علاء
16-05-2006, 22:23
As mentioned by Hatim, yesterday's 'alhan zaman was precisely dedicated to Mahmud Subh and I could get better recordings of a couple of pieces I already had in addition to a couple of new pieces I want to share with you here.
These are a mawwal and a dawr of his own composition.
This episode confirmed what I thought intuitively concerning the apparent Turkish influence in his style as it was indicated in the programme he learnt Turkish language and studied Turkish music.
The two pieces I'm posting here also confirm my early impression concerning Subh's artistic value.
He's obviously a talented composed and singer in the sense of his musical mastery and his knowlege. But, I can't see the artistic gift here that stems from authentic emotions and generates further emotions in the listener, the famous tarab. Subh music testifies to a great deal of craftsmanship, but I find it devoid of such essential thrill of life. Maybe I'm too old fashioned.
The dawr in particular is emblematic of such a situation. It has the structure of dawr, but it seems to be a sclerotic structure if not a shallow one without such inventivity, freedom, openness, such extraordinary mix of both eagerness and joyful carelessness that made up all the great dawrs of the Hamulo-'uthmanian school...
I would be most interested in knowing Fred's point of view on this.

Hattouma
17-05-2006, 10:00
you are not old fashoined here ..i totally agree with you on this dawr , i had it for months but never cared to post it ...
دور محنك لكن غير مطرب
و قد يصيبك الملل قبل انتهائه

3amr
17-05-2006, 17:20
I haven't heard the Dawr because of my rather tired internet connection these couple of days,

but I have heard the mawwal, and frankly speaking, I can't get over this man's voice, I have seldom heard a voice of such power and beauty.

about his compositional abilities, putting aside this dawr, what do you think of his muwashahat? I mean, Laha Badrul Tim is one very famous muwashah. Perhaps dawrs were not his thing.

أبو علاء
17-05-2006, 18:17
Apart from its being famous (this is simply sort of "social" success), Laha badru-t-timm reproduces the features I alredy enumerated. The tali' or khana is a cas d'école in the sense of uncommon constructions of genius. But, I can see nothing else in it. I mean I miss what counts most for me in muwashshahat, 'adwar and mawawil. Just to have an idea, try to compare it with another muwashshah in hijazkar: Isqini-r-rah allegedly composed by Muhammad 'uthman (you can find it in the waslah sticky in a hijazkar waslah by Mahmud Mursi as well as in the muwashshah sticky in a waslah of muwashshahat by the Israeli radio ensemble) and you'll see what I mean.

3amr
17-05-2006, 20:31
I think I understand what you mean, but I don't know anything about muwashahat to be able to contribute.

I feel that muwashahat are best appreciated live, with a very good mutrib and five or six back ups at maximum. oh, and do you think women belong in the choir when you have a male solo? I can't seem to stand them personally, particularly now with the westernized singing and all. (alla ysam7ak ya nweira).