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مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : Makam Isfahan - a mini study!



Najib
20-06-2006, 13:28
The attached pieces are composed by Itri (Buhuri-zade Mustafa Efendi Itri) whose compositions form the pillars of the Classic Ottoman repertoire.

The makam in question here is Isfahan.

In Turkish music the makam is composed of Ussak on Doukah (lower part) and Buselik on Neva (upper part).

http://www.oud.eclipse.co.uk/isfahanturkish.html

Bear in mind that the sikah note in Turkish ussak is always higher than our Arabic sikah (a koma bemol) so my theory is that, in Arabic music, it became a normal Mi (a buselik), and thus the lower part of the scale became another buselik rather than the original Ussak it was intended to be. This is because the music was transmitted by ear not written.

So in Arabic music we can think of Isfahan as a double bouselik (a double Nahawand).

There is a version of Muwashshah Ya Ghazaly Kayfa 3anni Ab3adouk that Zeryab(Ahmad Salhy) has uploaded:

http://www.zamanalwasl.net/forums/showthread.php?t=1000

This is different than the Hicaz version that Sabah Fakhry sings.

Also a lot of the Syriac-Maronite church hymns are based on this makam.

Ahmadkhatib
20-06-2006, 19:47
Hi Najib,
Yet I didn't hear the files, thank you anyway, but I suggest bringing Isfahan in its Persian version also to make more comprehensive comparison between the three.
I also remembered that Isfahan is a city in Iran, I don't know but this could give some sort of relation between both?

3amr
20-06-2006, 19:55
oh, the ussak on dugah is supposed to switch to rast every once in a while.

by the way, the pieces are gorgeous, they have these amazingly free and beautiful melodies. Reminds me somewhat of mozart, although I like Itri more :p

Najib
20-06-2006, 20:04
Yes would be great if someone adds some Iranian Asfahan to the equation to compare.

I knew Isfahan is a city, and its mosque is one of the most beautiful in the world.

But to my surprise Nahavend is also a city in Iran :-)

Ahmadkhatib
20-06-2006, 22:14
بالنسبة ل ياغزالي
كما يبدو لي هناك جنس نهوند على النوى ان كان النوى قريب الى نغمة الفا الا ان الاستماع للعود يدل ان تقاسيمه تستقر على وتر مطلق (الثاني تحديدا) وسابقا كان دوزان الالات يتبع صوت المغني لا غير اي ان ما يحدد الكردان والنوى والدوكاه هو طبقة المغني ولاحقا ولاسباب لها علاقة بالتدوين الموسيقي ودخول الات من ثقافات اخرى تم الاتفاق على تحديد النوى لتوافق نغمة الصول في النظام الغربي هذه قصة طويلة وبالمناسبة هي احدى اسباب الاختلاف الحاصل بين العرب والاتراك فيما يخص التدوين ونظام ضبط الالات في تركيا النوى هي الره كتابة واللا ضبطا

المهم -بناء على السابق- ما سمعته هو عبارة عن نهوند على النوى مع جنس عجم على الدوكاه والخانات الحرة هناك الكثير -حجاز دوكاه راست نوى- لكن ينتهي بعجم علىالدوكاه مرورا من نهوند النوى ومنه الى النهوند مرة الاخرى في التسليم مع المجموعة دخولا من العجم (النغمتين السادسة والسابعة) لتستقر بالنهاية على النوى وان كان هناك شبه تساوي بين النهوند والعجم كاجناس والنوى والدوكاه كنغمات
:D من الاخير
حسب معرفتي المتواضعة في هذا المجال ممكن اقول ان هذا بوسلك على النوى وهو ما يشبه النهوندصبى حسب رأي استاذي وان كان هذا مبني على نغمة الراست على ما اذكر



يتبع

tecladista
20-06-2006, 22:29
An amazing post to learn, thanks for everybody!!!!!!!!!

Ahmadkhatib
20-06-2006, 23:47
Dear Najib,
I looked at the oud site you mentioned, its nice but I'm wondering if this can be classified as reliable source? Its not clear where the information is coming from! (This is part of what I’m learning in the university about the scientific method, Question anything you hear or read:confused: :D )

Najib
21-06-2006, 12:18
Thanks for the detailed analysis. Yes regarding Ya Gazali, well spotted it is Acem on Doukah, and not buselik on Doukah.

As for the oud website the theory page does match some of the good books that I've got in Turkish (not that I can understand the Turkish language but I can definitely decipher their notation system and play it directly on Arabic oud).

Here's one very good book for Turkish makams and rhythms:

http://www.tulumba.com/storeItem.asp?ic=zBK980282DN312

Also in English there is the Karl Signell book which is an excellent reference (doesn't list everything, but explains the makams from the Ottoman prespective).