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مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : Mahmoud Tabrizi-Zadeh & Djamchid Chemirani



أبو علاء
30-11-2006, 01:10
The late Tabrizi-Zadeh was one of the most brilliant contemporary kamantcheh players. He was most particularly open to neighbour musics he came in contact with during his stay in Europe (see his recordings with Hedi Guella and Aram Andon Kerovpian in the Egyptian section). This nice cd was published in the renowned collection of Al-sur and I chose for you the second track thereof. He's accompanied here on the zarb by another illustrious name among contemporary performers of Persian classical music.

nassim165
30-11-2006, 19:42
شكرا سيد أبو علاء على هذه القطعة الموسيقية العذبة.:)

أبو علاء
30-11-2006, 20:18
العفو.

Najib
03-12-2006, 01:17
إحتفظ بالقرص يا با علاء

سعره فوق ال
120 Euro

أبو علاء
03-12-2006, 01:31
هل أنت مازح ؟
أعتقد أنّي اشتريته بخمس هذا الثّمن أو أقلّ من ذلك منذ عشر سنوات.

Najib
03-12-2006, 01:54
No, I'm definitely not kidding, it is out of print.

It is selling on amazon.fr for 120 Euros and on amazon uk for 83 pounds!!

So take good care of it! All of Al-Sur Cds are precious!

3amr
03-12-2006, 13:10
this guy is just amazing.

I mean, if you bayati, this is nothing short of heaven.

Small remark: anybody notice that both the persian kementche, and the turkish kemence, both replicate exactly the traditional way of singing in their respective musical cultures?

I'm wondering who imitates who, the voice or the instrument. My guess is the voice came first because the ney for example also plays in this manner, where as the ud and kanun have their own set of ornaments which are distinct from the singing style.

I don't know if I'm making sense, but the point is, this guy is amazing.

أبو علاء
03-12-2006, 13:20
Najib: Then, I might be rich and not aware of my wealth, after
all.:)
3amr: I think I see what you mean and I totally agree although the extent of my knowledge of both musics is more than modest.
By the way, You should listen to Tabrizi Zadeh playing in performaing some samples of Arab music. He's played with Aram Andon Kerovpian on qanun along with Hedi Guella (you can find the files in both Egyptian and North Africa sections).

3amr
03-12-2006, 13:31
I did listen to them earlier, and I remembered them when you posted this.
I think he makes a very good case for the reversion to older traditional instruments.
I think a violin doesn't belong in a takht, EXCEPT if you play like Sami al Shawwa.

to bring the matter in the eariler post into a realm you are the expert in: speaking of sami shawwa, I think he was the only violinist in arabic music who actually replicates human singing in his playing, that is, the sentences in his taksims are formulated like sentences in a mawwal (the person who made me pay attention to this is Zeryab in a comment he gave on the odeon hijaz taksim he posted), after sami al shawwa, two things happened in arabic violin playing: 1- the technique went it's own way, and became a distinct instrumental technique like the oud or kanun, but unfortunately, that meant the loss of a huge deal of subtlety and a pure tarab capability that was present earlier.
2-The strings became metallic (sami used gut), and the playing took place near the bridge, making the sound LOUD, harsh, and completely unsuitable for playing along with instruments as soft as the oud for example, ruining the delicate balance of the takht. (I think it also had an effect on oud technique, but it's only speculation).

I'm digressing, but I have to say this stuff, because I'm really frustrated with arabic violin playing these days.

أبو علاء
03-12-2006, 14:08
Thank you so much for this comment, which sheds light on one of the key issues in Arabic instrumental music and gives more sense to a mere feeling we've been experiencing and dealing with in the last months (see Najib's thread "file ramadhani" and the discussion therein). I'm not at all expert in the technical aspects, including those of instruments, but I do understend the gist of your thinking and totally agree with it. I also remember writing about the experience of Guella, Zadeh and Kerovpian that it is an excellent example of possible ways of "innovation", "openness" and enrichment of Arab music. If we're to explore other horizons in our music, we'd better do it by looking at such musics as the Turkish (Ottoman) and the Iranian (Persian) ones and not "struggle to rid our music from Turkish imperialism" according to Mr Marcel Khalifa project!

Hattouma
07-12-2006, 15:48
this guy is just amazing.

I mean, if you bayati, this is nothing short of heaven.

Small remark: anybody notice that both the persian kementche, and the turkish kemence, both replicate exactly the traditional way of singing in their respective musical cultures?

I'm wondering who imitates who, the voice or the instrument. My guess is the voice came first because the ney for example also plays in this manner, where as the ud and kanun have their own set of ornaments which are distinct from the singing style.

I don't know if I'm making sense, but the point is, this guy is amazing.



smart remark Amr also that of Zeryab did not pass unnoticed ..one cannot help but see how Shawwa's kamanga is unique ..and how this kamanche also resembles the voice techniques
i don''t know much about the instrument techniqus either ,but i can imagine the material change (not only in the violin ,ud ..but also the percussion instruments ...etc )made playing more convenient for the players but had some side effects in the sound ,it is still however the players to blame for losing the tradition ...
what do you think of Nidaa Abu Mrad's ?

3amr
07-12-2006, 23:04
I haven't heard any of Mr. Mrad's work unfortunately, so I can't judge. (my main source of arabic music is the two forums, zeryab (mostly for iraqi music), and this one (for everything else)), meaning that buying CD's is rather difficult.

as for your remark about blaming the players, I agree in case of violins, because using metal strings is simply bad taste when there are artificial gut replacements which are widely used in the west.

as for imitating vocal techniques, I believe that declined along with the vocal techniques themselves (how many singers these days can do 3irab like Fathiyya Ahmad?), due to a general decline in interest in the legacy of the Nahda age in egyption classical music. (Jamil Bashir is a glowing example of good violin playing in a classical iraqi context).

again, Shawwa was unique because:
1- the tarab music he played was something he was brought up with, due to his direct exposure, and long experience accompanying singers that were nothing short of legends.
2- his technique was completely uninfluenced by western ways of violin playing, and therefore included all kinds of ornaments which he himself had invented. (note: foregoing western technique leaves everything to chance, either you get bad habits and poor technique, or if you're a genius like shawwa, or Cinucen with the oud, you can create a technique that fits the music you're working with.)

this discussion is quickly growing beyond anything I can claim to be knowledgible about, and hence, the points above are mostly based on assumptions.