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مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : الغيره في أوّل حفلة : سنما ريفولي 17 يناير 1957



أبو علاء
06-12-2006, 01:26
هذه أوّل مرّة غنّت فيها السّيدة الغيرة، وكان ذلك ضمن الوصلة الثّانية من الحفل المذكور وكانت الأولى جدّدت حبّك ليه والثّالثة دليلي احتار.


As per the filename and this was the first time um kalthum interpreted this song

luay
06-12-2006, 03:32
Thanks Abu A'laa.
I've just listened to the song. I like this song in general. This recording has nothing special, but it's different than the one sung three months later (available on the forum, and from which the commercial version was taken). I liked to hear Qassabji's oud very clearly in this
recording.
It's very interesting that within three months from the first time she sang this song, we hear very nice improvisations and almost complete "control" of Om Kulthoum and the takht over the song (in the April 7, 1957 version of this song).
Ahmad Rami must have been ecstatic that night; all three songs are his (and all are Sunbati's, but this gentleman was out of his mind not to attend these concerts :-)

Thanks again.
Luay

أبو علاء
06-12-2006, 10:08
I liked Rami's comment on the verses and his explaining they are about the person he's in love with. When hearing this and knowing the whole background, you can't help wondering who that person was. By the way, there's an interesting novel written by a Lebanese journalist (was his name Salim Nusaibah?) entitled Oum and based on 'um klahtum biography. The main focus on is Rami's passion for her. It was originally published in French and I have no idea whether it was translated into English or Arabic.

ovide
06-12-2006, 13:36
Dear Abu Allaa

in fact, it is a very interesting Novel, even if i think that it is not true historically in the details,
beside that, and for littera reasons, it seems to me that Selim Nassib had built his NOvel on the Work Rouba2yat el Khayyam as The master Piece, and the Goal to achieve, both for Rami and Oum Koulthoum, wich is very nice litteraly, but seems not to fit in the historical reality

the Novel was translated to arabic, in Lebanon, but the Writer Name was changed to Sali Terkiyyeh, to mask his jewich origin, (lebanese jewich) and i believe he lives in France not in Lebanon.

fredlag@noos.fr
06-12-2006, 14:53
@ Ovide
Actually, Salim Turkiyyeh is his *real* name, Salim Nassib was the pen-name Salim used when he was a journalist working for French newspaper Liberation, in the 1980s. I think he left Lebanon when it became a little too difficult to hold a passport in which under the word "diyaana" is written : "musawiyya", during the civil war days. He was also for a moment in charge of the Middle-East desk at Courrier International, and I guess he's now concentrating on his work as a novelist.
Oum is a good novel, it is of course a fiction, but the musical details are mainly right and have an authentic ring to them. The emphasis on Ruba3iyyat is probably because it is Selim's favorite... The novel was turned into a play around 2000 or 2001 and was played in Nanterre if I remember well.

أبو علاء
06-12-2006, 14:58
Dear Ovide, I do imagine that some facts are invented rather than historical. I also agree on your point concernig the ruba'iyat. I can also add I didn't like the style, the manner in which the story was narrated. I think a good writer could have done much better with such material. What I liked, instead, was the story itself and I'm sure, beside the invernted elements for literary purposes, there's much of truth in that story as I'm sure the writer, who's journalist, made exerted a tremendous documentation effort before he wrote that novel. The problem with Arabic translations is that, almost all the time, they are totally off the track or, at least, far below the literary level of the original texts. And here, I'm speaking as a professional based on my knowlege of literature (Arab and non-Arab) and on my experience as an interpreter and translator.

ovide
06-12-2006, 15:27
Dear Frederic
manys thanls for the rectifications

and Abou alaa
i completly agree with you on the most of translatedpyblished books in arabic

however the novel of Selim terkiyeh was translated by bassam HajjarK from french of course,
i did'nt read it in french
but i am a big fan of Bassam Hajjar (who is a major poet in lebanese moderne litterature) and of his translations
i do not know who "faithful
of "fidèle" he is but what he do is always in a very beautiful arabic, with a lot of godd choice and taste in writing

i hope, if you had read some of his work or translations, that you tell me if, on evident experience and rules that you have in this domain, what do you think about him

أبو علاء
06-12-2006, 16:01
Unfortunately, I haven't read anything of him to date. But, now that you told me, I'll try and get that Arabic translation of Oum.

ovide
06-12-2006, 16:37
لقد نشرت عن دار المسار اللبنانية تحت عنوان "كان صرحاً من خيال..."

luay
06-12-2006, 16:44
Thanks Abu A'laa. I always like to hear what the poet had in mind, because it's sometimes completely different from how people interpret the poem or the points made by the poet. I remember Rami once talking about the part of "Haramte Rohi Men Kolle Nea'mah Kanet Betehla Wayyak Fe E'iny" (from Hagartak). He explained that the "Nea'ma" was a mango fruit!!! He saw the person whom he liked eating a mango fruit (and I did not read this; I watched Rami saying it in a documentary, so there is no question about its authenticity). The question again, is who's that person whom Rami liked :-)
In the same documentary, Rami's wife talks about how mad she was when Rami wrote Gaddedte Hobbak Leh to Om Kulthoum :-)

About the book Oum, I vaguely recall reading about a French book in one of the Israeli newspapers a long time ago. I remember they were saying that the author depicted Om Kulthoum as a lesbian who loved women! Is it this book?

Thanks again for this recording.
Luay

أبو علاء
06-12-2006, 17:13
Yes, that's the one


شكرا أبا الفداء

Hattouma
11-12-2006, 12:29
funny , i a Tunisian friend (lady) told me this before as what she thought a fact about Souma ..and i was surprised where her source got the idea ...well now i know !! would liek to know where the other -more difficult to believe- mythe of Souma smoking Hash on stage came from :)