Zakariyya Ahmad

[3amr]

ok, I'm starting first with a request: If you have a good quality file of either the amazing mawwal fi dhilli ahdab uyunak, or ana fintizarak by sheikh zakariyya, please upload them to the forum. Both files are already up, but in somewhat poor quality. (we had received a promise about the ana fintizarak, but it was probably forgotten).

now, to the discussion, I had previously mentioned when Abu Ala2 uploaded Sahdil Gibal (I thank him again for this present) that zakariyya resorted to a technique that reminded me somewhat of what Abdel Hayy Efendi did in his Allah Yisoon Dawlit Husnak, where zeryab accused hilmi efendi of going off key.

four tiny files have been upploaded for comparison. Two by Hilmi from allah yisoon, and two by zakariyya from two mawaweel, fi dhilli ahdab, and sahdil gibal.

the file names are somewhat descriptive, but may not be completely relevant.

please, does anybody else see a similarity in phrasing?

[أبو علاء]

It's difficult for me to perceive the similarity from such tiny samples. However, I think I understand what you mean by "in slide" and I'm sure of one thing - 'abdi-l-hay Hilmi didn't go off key in that case signalled by Zeryab (I suppose it's your second sample here. If so, it's clear he's not off key, isn't it?)

[ovide]

is "slide" here is in the meaning of glissando?
glissando goes naturally of key, and of "straight" toons, but in searching of an effect, so it does not count as an of key
but perhaps what is intriguing is that it is not a wide glissando like what we have the habbit to hear, but a small one, before returning to his phrase.

[3amr]

I don't believe Hilmi Efendi went off key.
slide here refers to what a appears to be a semitone that he goes down slowly, before continuing with the phrase. (which could amount to a modulation, but that needs a separate study by someone like doctor farid).

what I'm interested in here is the way both singers descend from the ah.

meaning, in the four samples, you have somebody either going up to high pitch, or already at high pitch, and then the phrase descends. The way the phrase descends is in my opinion intriguing, because I have never heard this sort of singing except with these two people, and in Hilmi's case, only in this recording.

in zakariyyas case, it was a standard technique he employed.

perhaps technique is not the right word to describe this?

[أبو علاء]

I see what you mean and do think this is a very intersting thread (hence, its moving to the Egyptian section) and the idea is worht further exploration as it is the case for all the other aspects of vocal techniques in classical Arab chant (Fred, Ahmadelkhatib,... I'm using this term in the absence of a more precise one while being fully aware of the reservations it raises). I think there are several hints at some of those aspects in my comments mostly in Manyalawi related threads. Such observations of non-learned listeners like you and me may constitute a good basis as raw material for an academic reasearch.