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مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : Sitt Fathiyya live, alive



Burhan
14-01-2007, 10:14
I am sure that more than one live recording of Fathiyya is already posted...however, it would be great if any of the members would post additional live recordings of Sitt Fathiyya showing her improvisation abilities..please keep the flame going and keep the legacy of Sitt Fathiyya Alive...She is one of the greatest Arab singers of the first half of the 2oth century

luay
15-01-2007, 00:52
I've never heard Fathiyya in a live performance.
Are you sure Burhan that there are live recordings of hers on the forum?
If so, could you please point me to one of them?
I went to the index now, but couldn't see anything in Fathiya's song list that
indicates any of the songs is live!

Thanks.
Luay

Burhan
15-01-2007, 07:11
i am not sure if ya halwet edduniya posted here is the live version..i will double check that...

3amr
15-01-2007, 09:37
it sounds like a live recording to me.

in any case, the improvisations in "khallooha 7ilwa ya banat" are simply astounding, even though too7a doesn't show off her "maqamic imagination" as much as she does else where. On the other hand, the melodic and structural imagination is incredible.

luay
15-01-2007, 15:23
I don't think Ya Halawte-Ddnoya on the forum is from a live concert. I recall having a discussion with Abu A'laa in a different thread about Fathiyya, and I recall that I "claimed"
that Fathiyya had rehearsed these improvisations, or something to that extent, and I do NOT recall Abu A'laa either saying it was a live performance (but for sure disagreeing with me on other issues :-)

There's no indication there's audience in the recording. Why did you think it was live?

Thanks.
Luay

3amr
15-01-2007, 17:32
well, the general ambience gave me that impression.

as for those improvisations, they don't really sound rehearsed to me, though I could be wrong.

أبو علاء
15-01-2007, 20:59
Luay is right in that there are no "live" performances of Fathiya at least on the forum and I doubt there are any elsewhere with one exception that is the mawwal she sang in the party organised on the occasion of 'um kalthum's return from a medical trip in 1949 ('ismat An-nimr has uploaded it here). It's purported she interpreted ya halawti-d-dunya on that occasion but we haven't had any recording thereof (I wouldn't be astonished to hear either Mahmoud or 'ismat himself have it) As for the recording we have of ya halawti-d-dunya, and here as Luay himself has honestly reported, I do disagree on his thinking her improvisations were rehearsed as well as I think that it is precisely the tremendous work she makes around the basic composition that lead you to think it was a live performance (could it be the "echo" of a live performance eg. the one she had on the previously mentioned occasion?).

ovide
15-01-2007, 21:27
i re-heard the ya 7alawet el donya from el set fatheyya
and in fact it does trouble me

the musicians seems prepared to the improvisations, (maybe they do remember them from a previous concert?!)
but the Chorus is almost all the times hesitant!! like if it is on stage

so maybe it is a brova??but still what a wonderful voice!!

luay
16-01-2007, 05:45
the musicians seems prepared to the improvisations, (maybe they do remember them from a previous concert?!)

Dear Fadi,
I lost track of the post in which Abu A'laa and I (and probably Najib) discussed this performance of Fathiyya, and the issue of musicians apparent preparedness for the
improvisations was one of the reasons I doubted they were all spur of the moment.
And if I'm not mistaken, I made the point in that thread. And of course, disagreement
with Abu A'laa in this case persists, and there's nothing wrong with it :-)

Another point is: if I were to record a song in a studio and improvise in it, for sure I'll
listen to it before it's released to the public; right? In that case, I would most probably
make modifications, change some "improvisations", etc., since when one reviews his
or her own work, it's always the case that there is room for improvement. And the fact
that it's a studio recording completely allows for that.

And this is not something against Fathiyya. In a thread started by Abu A'laa on Om
Kulthoum's version of Elleil Aho Tal WelGarhe E'ref Mea'ado, my opinion was that the
mawwal was rehearsed, given the similarity, and almost identity, between two different
versions of it! Now, I don't mean Fathiya rehearsed every single word and memorized
them for this performance, but can't it be that she had a discussion with the qanun player,
for example, before they started the recording, and she told him "in this part, I may do the
following, and in that part, I may do the following, etc."? This is almost impossible in a live
performance, since improvisations mostly come as a reaction to the audience's response, and predicting an audience response is not easy, if at all feasible.

This is my "theory" of studio recordings, and as I always admit, I may be wrong :-)

Best regards to all,
Luay

luay
16-01-2007, 05:52
Probably this discussion should have been in the thread dedicated to Ya Halawte-Ddnoya, since that would be more appropriate and would probably give others the opportunity to
give their opinion on this, rather interesting, matter.
What do Najib, Fred, and others, think about the issue of improvisations in studio recordings?
Are they really spur of the moment? Are they rehearsed? Is it some of this and some of that? Is it something else? I think this would be an enlightening discussion.

Best,
Luay