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مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : Hicaz Kar Teksim and Semai Cemil Bey



Najib
19-01-2007, 12:27
To my friend Mohsen.

Another out of print CD that is now available from CD baby.

I thank my friend Zeryab who copied me the CD last year.

Necati Tchelik on Oud and Khalil Karaduman on Qanun are both masters of their respective instruments.

The Hicaz Kar Semai by Cemil Bey isn't that well known in the Arab world as his other Semai, I presonally found it delightful.

أبو علاء
19-01-2007, 15:36
Thank you so much, Najib. The semai is indeed delightful, but I knew it! Actually, I have uploaded a version thereof performed by an unknow Arab ensemble (I had it on a cassette tape along with several other reknown semais). You'll notice such slight melodic differences as we're accustomed to find in Arab performances of Ottoman pieces. You'll also notice the different pitch.
http://www.zamanalwasl.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3272&d=1151256235 (http://www.zamanalwasl.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3272&d=1151256235)
The problem, however, is that the semai was then classified as sama'i shahnaz according to what was written on the tape cover! Do you think the this discrepancy could be explained by the difference in the melody and the pitch or was just an error on the part of whoever compiled the contents of my cassette tape?

Najib
19-01-2007, 16:50
Typical confusion between Turkish to Arabic musical translation :)

If the Turks play Hicaz Kar, they'll play it as we do on the qarar Rast, however their Rast match the aboslute RE on the european scale (and on ourse). Because their instrument tuning is always one note higher than the Arabic/European instruments.

So I bet that the guy who did the Arabic Tanweet must have listened to a Turkish recording, decided that the guys are playing it on a Re qarar and therefore he must have decided that the qarar matches a Dukah (RE in Arab tuning), and therefore he must have said Ah Hicaz Kar with a Dukah karar therefore it must be Shehnaz, voila!

3amr
04-01-2008, 21:41
I feel this thread ought to float up a bit, only 28 downloads, pitty really.

Although the group taksim at the beginning (in this case a duo), is not as successful as some other turkish attempts (niyazi seyin and necdet yasar for example), the playing of the sema3i is a true example of proper embellishment and phrasing in a manner that we wish would come back to the arabic takht.

Etiz
01-05-2008, 02:19
dear friends,

i have an another recording which could be a good example of Tanburi Cemil's Hicazkar,played by Murat Aydemir.

this tanbur player,Murat Aydemir,is a member of the famous turkish classical music band Incesaz.

he has a very good tune..I am really enjoying of listening to him.

adamgood
03-05-2008, 11:20
Typical confusion between Turkish to Arabic musical translation :)

If the Turks play Hicaz Kar, they'll play it as we do on the qarar Rast, however their Rast match the aboslute RE on the european scale (and on ourse). Because their instrument tuning is always one note higher than the Arabic/European instruments.

But yet even more confusion... :)

It's incorrect to say that Turkish musicians always tune their instruments one note higher than Arabic instruments. In Turkish music you have different tuning systems where the note name Rast can become any pitch (essentially) of the chromatic scale. That's the simplest way I can put that. Each of these tuning systems have names. For example:

When Rast = the pitch D, this is called Bolahenk tuning. This tuning is quite common and matches your concept of playing one tone higher from where Arabic Rast is played (assuming non-transposed)

But an extremely common tuning for turkish music is Kiz tuning, here Rast = the pitch A.

I won't bother listing all of the tuning names, they can be googled easily.

so don't be surprised if you ever hear Hicazkar played from the pitches A or B. This is extremely common.

Hicazkar will always have the karar of Rast. It doesn't matter what pitch you play it from. what is important is the seyir and melodic ideas are true to hicazkar.

Adam

أبو علاء
03-05-2008, 11:45
To my friend Mohsen.
The Hicaz Kar Semai by Cemil Bey isn't that well known in the Arab world as his other Semai, I presonally found it delightful.
Well, it's known to me through an Arab ensemble performance. However, I wasn't aware it was a Cemil Bey Tanburi compsition and I used to know it as... semai shahnaz! This probably links to your later comment, Najib, regarding the difference of tuning between Turks and Arabs. Actually, the Arab version I'm talking about is of a higher pitch (I think I did post it in the instrumental section under the prelude sticky with this wrong name as shown on the cassette I dubbed it from). Thanks, Etiz, for the nice performance of this piece.

Najib
06-05-2008, 14:04
Thanks Adam for the clarification. Yes of course I don't mean an absolute constant tuning, but I meant the tuning that you mentioned.

When they tune Rast on La isn't that to allow choirs with women to participate in the singing?

Najib
06-05-2008, 14:05
Also Adam,

Can you please list some of the common tunings and let us know how they are used? It would be great!

Thanks in anticipation.