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مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : Umm Kulthum - Nahg al-burda



أبو الغيث
15-02-2007, 14:12
كان الجد أكثر ما يكون مستمتعا نشوانا وهو يستمع الى هذا التسجيل (اضافة الى يا ظالمني -دمشق )
وقد استأذنت أبو علاء برفع هذا التسجيل سابق فأفادني بعدم صلاحية هذا العنوان للرفع هنا :)
ولكنني استأذنه الان برفع مسمع صغير من أجمل مقطع في التسجيل (حتى بلغت سماء لا يطار لها على جناح ولا يسعى على قدم ) :d لأنه بالفعل من المقاطع التي أبدعت بها الحجة أيما ابداع ومن المقاطع التي تجعل المآقي تغرورق بالدموع من شدة التأثر بالكلمات من جهة ومن الابداع في ارتجال وتصرفات ام كلثوم ( اسمعوا فخري بك البارودي وهو يقول لها في اول مرة - يا عيني - وفي الثانية يقول لها - يا عينتيني -:d )

أبو علاء
15-02-2007, 14:32
كان الجد أكثر ما يكون مستمتعا نشوانا وهو يستمع الى هذا التسجيل (اضافة الى يا ظالمني -دمشق )
وقد استأذنت أبو علاء برفع هذا التسجيل سابق فأفادني بعدم صلاحية هذا العنوان للرفع هنا :)


أبا الغيث، لم أقل إنّ التّسجيل لا يصلح للرّفع هنا وإنّما قصدت أنّه قد سبق رفعه، فهل استمعت إلى النّسخة المرفوعة هنا للتّأكّد من أنّنا لسنا نتحدّث عن نفس التّسجيل ؟ إذا كانت نسختك مختلفة عن حفلة نهج البردة بدمشق الّتي رفعت بهذا القسم فيمكنك رفع التّسجيل كاملا، أمّا إذا كانت هي نفس الحفلة فهذا الموضوع لا محلّ له.

Najib
15-02-2007, 14:38
Yallah Ya Abul Ghayth

If it is different, erfa3 wa anjidna!!

luay
15-02-2007, 14:51
Hi,
I haven't listened to the file yet, but if there is "Ya E'iny" in "Hatta Balaghta Samaan", this is the Damascus performance.
There are NO recordings of this song on the forum. The Damascus version was uploaded at
one time, but then deleted, because it was taken from another forum without acknowledging
the source.

The improvisations Om Kulthoum (Al-Hajjeh, as many are calling her :-) did in the verse of Hatta Balaghta Samaan, are some of the most beautiful I've heard.
By the way, the Damascus performance is the commercial one, as well, which is very interesting, since I don't know any other example where the commercial version of a song
is from a performance outside Egypt.

Luay

أبو الغيث
15-02-2007, 15:02
أبا الغيث، لم أقل إنّ التّسجيل لا يصلح للرّفع هنا وإنّما قصدت أنّه قد سبق رفعه، فهل استمعت إلى النّسخة المرفوعة هنا للتّأكّد من أنّنا لسنا نتحدّث عن نفس التّسجيل ؟ إذا كانت نسختك مختلفة عن حفلة نهج البردة بدمشق الّتي رفعت بهذا القسم فيمكنك رفع التّسجيل كاملا، أمّا إذا كانت هي نفس الحفلة فهذا الموضوع لا محلّ له.

التسجيل هو نفسه المرفوع سابقا ولكن المدة تختلف فالتسجيل القديم هو 60 دقيقة اما الجديد 69 دقيقة
أترك الحكم للمختصين اذا كان هناك اعادة لبعض المقاطع ...
أبو علاء الحبيب اذا كان ثمة مقاطع معادة في تسجيلي وتبين عدم وجود اختلاف كبير بين التسجيلين فيرجى حذفه والاكتفاء بالتسجيل السابق
مع شكري وامتناني لجهودك .....


​تمّ حذف الملفّين المرفوعين هنا بعد جمعهما في ملفّ واحد تجدونه أدناه.

fredlag@noos.fr
15-02-2007, 15:02
[LEFT]Indeed, as Lu'ay mentioned, this wonderful performance of Nahg al-Burda is not a "rare" recording and is is sold commercially by Sono Cairo. It is therefore irrelevant to wonder if it has been posted on another forum.

أبو علاء
11-02-2014, 07:25
نبّهني الأخ العزيز حامد البكّاري (هائم) إلى تسجيل لهذه القصيدة عثر عليه على يوتيوب وهو من حفل غير معلوم المكان والتاريخ مختلف عن حفل دمشق المرفوع هنا فعدت إلى الفهرس ثمّ إلى الموضوع واكتشفت أنّ هذا التسجيل هو الوحيد الموجود عندنا من تسجيلات نهج البردة، ويبدو أنّ تسجيل أبي الغيث هذا من حفل الثامن عشر من أغسطس 1955 كما وجدت في بعض المواضع، ووجدت التسجيل مقسوما شطرين، فرأيت أن أبادر إلى جمعهما في ملفّ واحد أوّلا قبل أن أرفع التسجيل الذي ظفر به هائم ؛ هذا إذن أوّلا تسجيل دمشق مجموعا في ملفّ واحد.

أبو علاء
11-02-2014, 07:38
وهذا هو التسجيل الذي التقطه هائم من يوتيوب وهو من حفل مختلف بلا ريب أطول مدّة به تصرّفات لافتة في قسم حتّى بلغت سماء لا يطار لها، ولا يبعد أن يكون هو الآخر من دمشق باعتبار جوّ الحفل العامّ وتعليقات الجمهور ؛ وتجدر الإشارة إلى وجود أثر واضح للقطع واللصق في حدودة الدقيقة الخامسة والسبعين.

fredlag@noos.fr
11-11-2014, 20:14
I can't explain why this file has not been given more attention, and especially from Luay. This is an incredible performance of Nahg al-Burda, with extensive improvisations starting in the ḥattā balaghta samā'an section, with a wonderful sentence starting the impro, but unlike the Damascus concert, Umm Kulthūm prefers to go back very far in the lyrics, extemporizes from sarat bashā'iru and comes back to ḥatta balaghta samā'an.

There are, to my knowledge, four concerts recordings that remain for Nahg al-Burda :
2 of them are on the forum : the Damascus 1955 one, and this wonderful performance, which I would date early fifties. I don't share Abu Ala's impression that it is a non-Egyptian performance, the local audience in the late 30s-early50s was noticeably more rowdy than in the tame mid-1950s and 1960s.

2 of them are missing and can be found on other forums, but should be here however :
- the 1955 Beirut performance, short, without impros but extremely energetic, and Umm Kulthum's voice is wonderful in it.
- the other undated performance (allegedly 1950 Nadi Ahli according to Sama3i but no documents proving this), which is also fantastic, though the available file is a bit too fast, with amazing ornaments on lahā (lā yuṭāru lahā), and a full impro starting also in the ḥatta balaghta section, but going directly to gubt al-samā'.

أبو علاء
12-11-2014, 10:10
I can't explain why this file has not been given more attention, and especially from Luay.
I'm afraid Luay ended succumbing to the general lethargy that has settled in the forum for years and has not been reached yet by the recent awakening.:(
I have a relatively long list of "candidate" performances on Youtube that I intend to review with the intention of uploading the ones that we don't have here.

luay
12-11-2014, 15:19
Exactly, unfortunately :-)
But, now that life is sprouting again, I'll post my comments on the performance.

Best,
Luay

أبو علاء
12-11-2014, 16:07
Exactly, unfortunately :-)
But, now that life is sprouting again, I'll post my comments on the performance.

I am also awaiting your input the most recently posted version of ’ahli-l-hawa.

luay
17-11-2014, 02:38
I just got to listen to this Nahj Al-Bordah. I had it before (from sama3y, possibly). The file I have says it's the 15 June 1950 that took place in the Rivoli Cinema. In Sama3y they have records from a newspaper showing she did indeed sing this song that night, along with El-Amal.

Luay

أبو علاء
19-11-2014, 13:47
- the other undated performance (allegedly 1950 Nadi Ahli according to Sama3i but no documents proving this), which is also fantastic, though the available file is a bit too fast, with amazing ornaments on lahā (lā yuṭāru lahā), and a full impro starting also in the ḥatta balaghta section, but going directly to gubt al-samā'.

I've never been at ease with dates and places when talking about the lady's performances and, maybe to justify or hide my shortcomings in this regard, I have always dealt with the question with a significant dose of skepticism. On youtube, I have found a version that is labelled by the poster as "a rare concert", however the poster who seems to share my precautionary approach and to whom I want to pay tribute for the quality of many of the concerts he has uploaded and the accompanying information (his name is Nizar Nasser), he wrote the following in the comments:



من الحفلات النادرة ، مختلفٌ في تاريخها و مكانها ، تصرّفات رائعة في [ جبت السماوات ] ، .
الصورة من حفل بالنادي الأهلي 2 نوفمبر 1950م غنّت فيه نهج البردة و الأولة في الغرام و يا اللي كان يشجيك أنيني ، و البعض ينسب هذا التسجيل لهذا الحفل


_The copy uploaded by Nizar Nasser seems to be different from the one that Fred got from Sama'i with the same label and of better sound quality. But guess what? It is the same version that is found in post number 8 of this thread that we got from youtube following Ha'im's indication and that we labelled as from unknown date and place. This could confirm Luay's remark in our private correspondence concerning the date of the version Fred obtained from Sama'i as being 1948 and not 1950. I'll leave it to both of you to sort it all out.
Note the mention of el-'awwila in second position--I thought the so-called ban ran through to 1955!


I just got to listen to this Nahj Al-Bordah. I had it before (from sama3y, possibly). The file I have says it's the 15 June 1950 that took place in the Rivoli Cinema. In Sama3y they have records from a newspaper showing she did indeed sing this song that night, along with El-Amal.

Now, what is funnier is that still on youtube, there is a file uploaded by a guy calling himself ibnJeddah1927 and labelled Cinema Rivoli 15 June 1951 except that it is the same version as the one mentioned above and hinted at as being possibly from An-nadi-l-'ahli on 2 November 1950... I'll post the links to the two posts below. But all this is too messy for me. It confirms once more how hypothetical is the information available on some if not many of 'um kalthum's performances especially (but not exclusively) in the late fourties-early fifties,. What adds to the confusion is that not only the right information is not always available in the archives of the Egyptian radio in the first place (normally the main if not the sole source of all those recordings), but also because too many people tend to tamper with the recorded material and accompanying information ranging from so-called sound engineers who cut tapes, extend others by repetition or assemble different parts from different original recordings to posters in the net manipulating the same recordings that have sometimes already been manipulated in the afore described ways for no other puprose than the false claim of offering new exclusive so-called "rare" concerts never heard before....
This sad panorama set aside, I am rediscovering this gem (nahji-l-burdah) to which I have never paid much attention before and that is one of the titles that reveal the extent of the compositional talent of Sunbati and the limitless interpretative capacities of the Lady.


Nizar Nasser's post hinting at the possibility of the uploaded version being from the nadi 'ahli concert on November 2, 1950:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpe1C2HqkH8&index=36&list=PLTz8EGLQLDaqERbVqyDT6ZS18fJ5Bf_AE
ibnJeddah1927 post featuring the same version and claiming that it is from the Cinema Rivoli concert on June 15, 1950:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NacVr0ol2xA&index=16&list=PLTz8EGLQLDaqERbVqyDT6ZS18fJ5Bf_AE