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: Tahir Buselik Peşrev - T.Cemil Bey



dem
12-04-2007, 06:50
Tahir Buselik Peşrev ( Kemani Rıza Efendi ) - performed by Tanburi Cemil Bey

Najib
12-04-2007, 15:26
Thanks Dem.

Can someone please explain the makam a bit further?

Anton Efendi
12-04-2007, 17:34
This piece is one of my favorites of all time. It's said that Tanburi Cemil didn't initially like the original Kemani Reza composition (both the Saz Semai and the Pesrev), because he thought they bowed too much to western influence and varied from tradition. So he only played his own version of them.

As for Tahir Puselik, it starts on the Muhayyer (actually Gerdaniye to Muhayyer), plays on the higher notes all the way to Tiz Cargah and even to the Tiz Neva. Then again hovers on the Gerdaniye and Muhayyer, again climbing up to the Tizia, it also could play on the Evic and climb up to the Tiz Segah. Then it goes down to Huseini, Neva, Cargah, and touches on the Nim Puselik before closing on the Dugah.

So you have a mix of Beyati, Rast, and Puselik.

Najib
12-04-2007, 18:34
Great explanation as usual.

Thanks a lot.

dem
12-04-2007, 20:16
Thanks a lot Anton Efendi for a great explanation.

Hattouma
17-04-2007, 16:45
indeed a wonderful piece ..thank you very much Dem.

justa note , have a problem with file names in Turkish Letters they turn into $$%%

adamgood
19-04-2007, 10:37
I just listened to a bunch of taksims and pieces in makam TahirBuselik. Here's my oversimplified analysis of the makam:

It's a combination of, not surprisingly, makams Tahir and Buselik. Begins like Tahir and ends like buselik so, you would first have to know someting about each of those makams to understand Tahirbuselik.

Tahir is similar to makam Muhayyer. They both share the karar pitch Dgah, and both share the entry note Muhayyer. the dominants are different...for Muhayyer the dominant is the pitch Hseyni, for Tahir it's Neva. So this seems to be the biggest difference between the two.

Seyir:
1. Ussak melodies on the pitch Muhayyer but with a lot of tiz argah (steal them from makam Muhayyer)
2. but go a lot down to the pitch Neva (the important dominant note). Maybe you could think of this as a transposed Nisaburek from Neva but you must give the Muhayyer tastes.
3. You have been using the pitch Evi from your Muhayyer melodies on the way down to Neva (which can be quite Rast like) but, now you must catch the pitch Acem before you rest on Neva.

4. now it splits...time for Buselik. Every taksim I'm listening to ends with a very heavy buselik sounding karar..."do si la sol la"

adam

Anton Efendi
19-04-2007, 18:27
You're right Adam to point out the Neva. I think one reason (and one reason why I used Bayati instead of Ussak) is because Tahir Puselik, like Bayati, stems from the Neva (Ussak, and indeed Muhayyer, stems from the Dugah), even if they close on the Dugah.

As for your structural explanation, it's very similar to Sami al-Shawwa's explanation of Baba Tahir, a related makam (but without the Puselik of course). But Shawwa uses Bayati, not Ussak, to describe what's being played on the Muhayyer. Here's what he wrote about Baba Tahir:

"This makam works the Bayati on the pitch Muhayyer, starting from pitch Gerdaniye, until it hits the jawab Neva (Tiz), and descending it works Rast on the pitch Neva and closes by working Bayati on the Dugah."

Of course, when you add Puselik, the ending changes.

adamgood
20-04-2007, 09:43
Anton, I see what you mean. From what I've gathered in a few years of playing this music, Arabic musicians/thinkers are quick to point out that "makam x is similar to Beyati" or uses beyati while Turkish musicians/thinkers are quick to relate something to Ussak.

I have no idea really, it's just a guess on my part. I know nothing about Arabic maqam theory and know hardly anything about the music.

Necati Çelik is very likely to say "Muhayyer starts with something like ussak melodies from Muhayyer but uses tiz argah VERY much...TOO much"

or

"Acemasiran uses some ussak in the middle before it takes Krdi"

etc...

well here's an idea, in modern Turkish music theory there's only an ussak tetrachord, and no beyati tetrachord, that probably has a lot to do with it.

Yes this stuff is all pretty funny and only the grand masters really know the answers.

Hmmm I was thinking a few months ago about Neyzen Emin Dede's Beyati Pesrev...the 4th hane goes to something that I would quickly call Muhayyer but I wonder if it's better to say that it goes to Tahir for 2 reasons: 1. it sounds a bit like it (uses Neva) 2. Beyati and Tahir share neva as the dominant so theoretically that would work "better" (?)

either way, take the opening melodies, just 1 phrase even of the 4th hane of his beyati pesrev and I'm pretty sure a Turkish musician would say to an amateur like me, it's "Muhayyer...well...Tahir...or if we break it down further, the small melodies, like ussak melodies around the pitch Muhayyer but...it's Tahir." You know what I'm getting at? But he/she would never say "Beyati from Muhayyer."

Ok maybe I should just pick up my ud and try to learn the piece, haha

Adam

adamgood
20-04-2007, 09:48
and BTW, am I losing my eyesight or is Tahirbuselik NOT in the Ismail Hakki Özkan book? Seems really strange if it's not.

I would love to see a list of who are the inventors of what makams...like I think Dede Efendi invented Ferahfez?

Anton Efendi
20-04-2007, 15:32
Adam, in fact you are right. Melodically, it is Ussak in that it follows the seyir of Ussak but on Muhayyer (starting from Gerdaniye) as opposed to Beyati which would perhaps start from the Neva (see, e.g., the Osmanoglu Pesrev).

As for your other note, I had mentioned something like this before on this forum (can't remember where). For instance, listen to the intro (http://neyzen.com/images/notalar/beyati/karsidan_yar_gule_gule.gif) of the Beyati Sarki Karsidan yar gule gule.

I think, if I'm not mistaken, I had made this comment when someone uploaded a file including a Tahir taksim which was followed (directly) by the Dede Efendi Sarki above.

Anton Efendi
20-04-2007, 18:24
Here are my amateurish musings from that earlier posting I referred to.

http://www.zamanalwasl.net/forums/showpost.php?p=5743&postcount=20

adamgood
20-04-2007, 18:47
Anton, in that post you made you say "both Tahir and Beyati derive from the Neva"...can you explain more what you mean?

They both have the same karar (dgah), share the same dominant (neva). However they start in different places, (beyati from neva, tahir from Muhayyer) and have different directions (beyati = ascending/descending, tahir = descending)