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مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : يا ظالمني، الأزبكيّه 6 مايو 1954



أبو علاء
20-04-2007, 02:09
هذه الحفلة ستسرّ بلا ريب لؤيّا والفريد وأبا الغيث وسائر المولعين بحفلات السّيّدة، وقد لفتت نظري بالخصوص تصرّفاتها في مقطع أطاوع في هواك قلبي الّذي وقفت عنده طويلا وعلى نحو مختلف عمّا سنسمعه في الحفلات اللاّحقة أعوام 54 و55 و56... مع الملاحظ أنّه لا وجود لتقاسيم ضمن مقطع حكيت لك عن سبب نوحي في هذا التّسجيل، والحفلة بجميع المقاييس بما في ذلك نضارة صوت السّيّدة وبروز عود القصبجي بديعة ؛ لهذا أبَيْت أن أبِيتَ ليلتي هذه قبل أن أرفعها لكم.
مع العلم أنّه سبق لأحد الإخوة رفع تسجيل جدّدت حبّك ليه من نفس الحفل.

أبو الغيث
20-04-2007, 03:13
وكأنما أصابني مس أيقظني من نومي قبل الفجر بساعة وسار بي الى جهاز الحاسوب لأستمع لهذه الرائعة وأوقظ بعض اهل البيت :) .....
وفعلا سررت أيما سرور (كما توقع كبيرنا سنا وقدرا أبو العلاء).... فالست (كعادتها) حلقت بنا عاليا .... وتصرفاتها أدهشتني وفاجأتني وكانني استمع ليا ظالمني لأول مرة بحياتي....
وفعلا ريشة القصبجي في صعودها وهبوطها وصحيحها ومقلوبها تبدو أخاذة مدهشة....

أستاذنا أبو العلاء... لك مني جزيل الشكر والامتنان على هذه التحفة.....

أبو علاء
20-04-2007, 11:39
رفع اللّه قدرك يا أبا الغيث.

7abib
20-04-2007, 16:09
والله مش عرف اقول ايه .. حفلة رائعة جدا, والله ان ام كلثوم دي بحر واعتقد ان كل يوم هانكتشف درة جديدة من دررها .. يارب يخليلنا ازاعة الاغاني , بصراحة كان اقصى حلم عندي اني اسمع تسجيلين مختليفين لاغنية واحده لام كلثوم ولكن الحمد لله ازاعة الاغاني حققت اكثر من احلامنا بس المهم تفضل كده على طول .. واشكرك جدا يا ابو علاء لانك تسجل كل يوم وتتحفنا بيها في المنتدى , لما بيفوتني يوم في ازاعة الاغاني الحمد لله بلاقيك مسجل

أبو علاء
20-04-2007, 17:31
واشكرك جدا يا ابو علاء لانك تسجل كل يوم وتتحفنا بيها في المنتدى , لما بيفوتني يوم في ازاعة الاغاني الحمد لله بلاقيك مسجل


العفو يا سيّدي.

Najib
20-04-2007, 18:32
الله عالكورد ما اجمله في آخر الاسبوع

مع شكري العميق لك أبا علاء

و مع اعتذاري لكل الإخوان هنا عن تقصيري في متابعة درركم في هذا القسم

Kamal Kassar
20-04-2007, 19:21
شكرا لك يا ابا علاء و ما اجمل هذه الحفلة و ما اذكى طعمها عندما تناغمك ام كلثوم السماء من اعالي التيبت حيث يصل وجدها السماء القريبة
سلامي عليكم من لهاسة عاصمة التيبت وكم طعم توما جميل في تلك الاعالي

أبو علاء
20-04-2007, 20:02
الشّكر لكما أيّها العزيزان، وهنيئا للصّديق كمال بمتعة الأعالي.

fredlag@noos.fr
20-04-2007, 23:00
لقد شوقتموني جميعا في الاستماع إلى هذه الصيغة !

luay
22-04-2007, 17:20
A million thanks Abu A'laa for this beautiful present, which beside its beauty and enjoyment, it also delivered us from Leilet Hobb :-)
I was amazed to hear such a performance from The Lady of a song in its second or third time she sings it (the premiere was March 1954, and this is the May 1954 performance. I would guess she also sang it in April 1954). As you pointed out, the "youth" and clarity of her vibrant voice in this performance are outstanding. Qassabji's oud clearly adds to the joy one derives from such a performance.

I loved the whole performance, but there were moments that are clear winners. I have comments about the recording, which I'll mention at the end (there are cuts in certain places).

- The way she returns to Haram at minute 14 and 42 seconds; beautiful.
- The way she sings Ya Dhalimni at minute 30 and 39 seconds.
- She repeats Atawea' several times, each a bit differently, and culminates in the beautiful rendition at minute 33 and 56 seconds.
- Then, improvisations on Atawea', heard for the first time, and never later, on Atawea', starting at minute 34 and 58 seconds.
- The way she sings "Wu Yezdad..." at minute 41 and 54 seconds is very emotional/expressive; what's the maqam she's using here?
- The way she ends the word Hegranak at minute 46 and 44 seconds is "dramatic" and very nice.
- Wadooa' El Morre Fi Hobbi at minute 47 and 2 seconds, and then at minute 49 and 12 seconds are really beautiful.
- The way she "refuses" to finish the song, and instead go back to Haketlak, at one hour, 2 minutes, and 19 seconds, is super nice (and clearly appreciated by the audience).

Before I end with some "summarizing point", I noticed cuts for fractions of seconds at the following places:
1. minute 47 and 58 seconds
2. minute 48 and 7 seconds
3. minute 48 and 27 seconds
4. minute 50 and 41 seconds
5. minute 52 and 15 seconds.
But as I said, they seem to be literally fractions of a second each. But I wanted to bring this to your attention, Abu A'laa, just in case it's something with the equipment and you wanted to know.

About my "summarizing note": Mahmoud once mentioned that Om Kulthoum sang this song 26 times (and he has recordings of all these concerts). Of course, it may very well be the case she sang it in private occasions as well, and we don't have evidence of that. What strikes me most is that if one listens to the performances of this song that we have on the forum (and we have several of them), he or she hears almost completely different improvisations in these various recordings. It's as if this lady was a bottomless well of ideas and genius. To put this into perspective, I wanted to compare this to a contemporary singer who also gave many live recordings, and whom I like a lot (a view not shared by many on this forum): Farid El Atrache. Farid sang his famous songs, such as Adi-Rrabeea', Awwel Hamsa, etc., more than Om Kulthoum sang Ya Dhalimni. Yet, in all of these times, he gave an identical performance. He would sing the same mawwal at exactly the same place. Even his oud taqaseem sounded identical to me. As much as I like Farid, he just wasn't creative/imaginative when compared to Om Kulthoum (again, I'm comparing the two because they were the dominating two singers in terms of live performances). Putting Farid aside for a second, I haven't heard any other singer who had The Lady's creativity as evidenced by multiple performances of the same song.

Once again, Thanks a million Abu A'laa for yet another beautiful rendition of Ya Dhalimni.

Best regards,
Luay

أبو علاء
22-04-2007, 17:41
Dear Luay, thank you so much for this detailed comment. I was sure you were going to like it as I did, although I haven't had the chance to listen to the whole recording to date after a couple of attempts! Hence, my unawareness of the cuts you mentioned. That might have been the satellite reception. Anyway, I'll review the file based on your indications and try to eliminate those cuts and reupload the file.
Needless to say I totally agree on your assessment of the Lady's creativity. You certainly remember I started liking this song only after listening to the various nice performances thereof previously unknown to me.
I also appreciate the objectivity of your remark concerning Farid despite his being one of your favourite singers after 'um kalthum. Not only do I agree with you, but this is basically one of the main reasons for which I don't like Farid (question already discussed elsewhere).
I will come back on your maqam question when I have the chance to open the file again to work on it.
I'll come back on

luay
22-04-2007, 19:33
I was sure you were going to like it as I did

You can be certain of that. When it comes to Om Kulthoum's songs, you are more "conservative" than me. In other words, typically, what you like of her songs/performances, I do like, but not vice versa: there are songs/performances I like a lot, and you don't care much about.


I also appreciate the objectivity of your remark concerning Farid despite his being one of your favourite singers after 'um kalthum.

If someone asks me "why do you think Farid's voice is beautiful?", I think it would be fair to say that the question is not relevant, because that's a personal taste, which doesn't make sense to discuss.
However, if one asks "why do you think Farid is not creative, or Om Kulthoum is?", I think such a question can be answered, or at least discussed, somehow "scientifically", by drawing upon samples from the performances that reached us from these artists. Even though my justification of the opinion that Farid lacked creativity was very brief, I didn't just make an arbitrary comment. Again, there are several performances of Adi-Rrabeea'. If one listens to them, one can almost predict what Farid would do at every second.

Now, having said that, I still like Farid, because to me, a single Awwel Hamsa performance is sufficient to make him great (to me); the rest would be almost carbon copies of that performance, but his "greatness" (to me) was already established. In the same vein, and even "more predictable", is Fairouz, for example. The same can be said of Sabah Fakhri (a Qadduka-l-mayyas performance in the 60's and another in 2000 are almost identical! That's also a skill, but a bad one :D)... and the list goes on and on. I think the singers who showed genuine creativity are numerable.

Sorry for digressing from the main topic, that is Ya Dhalimni.

Luay

أبو علاء
22-04-2007, 20:15
1. The cuts problem: Unfortunately, it appeared there's nothing I can do about it. Most likely, it's a defect in the original recording broadcast by 'aghani or maybe the defect was it in playing the tape/file. We should wait until they re-broadcast it again to see.
2. The maqamic question: the basic wiyizdadi-l-gawa biya melodic sentence is in bayati mode. The point you've spotted is a variation in higaz mode that starts at the very moment you've pointed out and carries on until min 42' 38".

luay
22-04-2007, 20:22
Thanks for the quick response/check Abu A'laa.
Given the name Higaz, which would indicate the maqam came from or was popular in Iraq and neighboring countries, probably, is this maqam common in Egyptian music? Is there an Om Kulthoum song on Higaz?

Thanks again.
Luay

أبو علاء
22-04-2007, 21:03
Qadduka-l-mayyas, mudhanak gafahu marqaduhu, 'inayya mahma qalu 'annak... and, of 'um kalthum, tal'at harb and shamsi-l-'asil.

fredlag@noos.fr
22-04-2007, 21:21
@ Lu'ay
Umm Kulthum in higaz :
Ana fe entezarak
kam ba3athna ma3a n-nasim

shams al-asil might be more higazkar ? but *gins* higaz is part of *maqam* higazkar

But do not take into account the name of the maqamat, they are not relevant, probably not even to their origins. Nothing proves kurdi is actually Kurdish.
Higaz is a very basic maqam in Arabic music, and it is a major component of another very usual maqam which is Higazkar (amanan ayyuha l-qamar / is'al ruhak)

luay
23-04-2007, 01:18
Thanks very much Abu A'laa and Fred. There is no way I would have guessed these titles you mentioned.
However, I now remember in one music program (over 10 years ago), some comparisons were drawn between Mudnaka Gafaho Marqadoho and the Iraqi song Foq-Ennakhel.

In light of your comments, it may be safe to say that Higaz is not as commonly used as other maqams in Egypt (Rast, Kurd, Nahawand, Saba,..). I'm basing my judgment on mere remembering how many times I saw Higaz mentioned in your discussions of maqams on the forum, compared to the other ones :-)

Thanks again (Fred: have you had a chance to listen to the song? no comments mean one of two things: either you didn't hear it, or heard but didn't like :-)

Luay