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مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : Om Kolthoom's most virtuosic moments



Bassio
23-06-2007, 14:07
What is the moments in Om-Kolthoom repertory that you think has the most virtuosic coloring that makes you gasp every time you hear it?

I remember a very powerful improvisation in the Ana-Fe-Entazarak recording. (that was on-the-spot, right? how the instruments follow?)

I also like the downward sweep near the end of Amanan ayyoha al Qamar (Abu il Ila Mohamed). I don't know what this technique is called. Maybe someone can comment on this moment.

I also like many 'qaflas' of her phrases. This is especially evident in some Adwars I heard. The way she controls this miniscule "trilling" is fascinating.

Any favorites of your own?

أبو علاء
23-06-2007, 15:47
Bassio, do you think seriously a thread like this can be of any use? There are so many threads around where various aspects of 'um kalthum productions and aesthetic experience is discussed from various points of view based on given performances from different periods, in which you can bring in your own contribution. But what's the point in inviting people to single out a particular bit with a superlative like the one you used? We will end up with a collection of several hundred answers indicating each a different moment from a different song/performance ranging from her qasa'id, 'adwar and monologues in the 20s-30s to her late concerts in the 60s-70s...

Bassio
23-06-2007, 19:05
There are so many threads around where various aspects of 'um kalthum productions and aesthetic experience is discussed from various points of view based on given performances from different periods, in which you can bring in your own contribution.

Aboalaa I get your point now. So you don't mind that I resurrect old threads in which some members are discussing a particular point regarding a certain song .. then I just insert my 'newbie-ish' questions at the end .. and like that we can continue a discussion that probably ended like 9 months ago??

This is fine for me, if it is for the sake of 'order' in the forum (of course).


But what's the point in inviting people to single out a particular bit with a superlative like the one you used? We will end up with a collection of several hundred answers indicating each a different moment from a different song/performance ranging from her qasa'id, 'adwar and monologues in the 20s-30s to her late concerts in the 60s-70s...

Bassio, do you think seriously a thread like this can be of any use?

Sorry. But my aim was to make more people share with their opinions. This makes people like me want to checkout what they suggested and expand my listening repertoire and 'expand my tastes' and 'listen to new music'. And I can then ask why .. expand knowledge .. etc.

They are called forums because .. they are for discussions. Very simple. Ongoing discussions.

Believe me, I do not want to spread chaos in your forums .. but I am telling you that this is the way in most forums I joined (ehm .. non-Arab) like the forums regarding piano and western classical music I always refer to.

Note:
Maybe this is the reason my posts were deleted at other Arab music forums. :D
No .. seriously. But at the other forums they just deleted it without even mentioning why.

But thank you for your patience with me Sir. You have my respect and regards. I will have to ask you though to suggest how a person like me have a discussion about a certain aspect without opening a new thread.

Thanks :)

أبو علاء
23-06-2007, 20:23
Let me try again to explain what this forum about!
I don't know how those other non-Arab fora look like, but, if what you mean is what is commonly labelled "message boards" or "discussion boards", this is definitely not one. It is not an upload/download website either (cf. your exchange with my partner Najib).
Maybe I understand now what you meant by your remark concerning threads having fienames in their titles!
We're interested in both files and "narratives".
Our aims are both "material" and "theoretical". The Arab classical repertoire is not safe; it's not physically preserved as it is the case for the classical Western one. So, our first and minimum objective is to safeguard it by collecting and disseminating it. Hence, the upload/download feature. But, if it is not even listened to, it is all the less studied, analysed, commented on...etc. And there comes the other aspect on which we our, at least, as much keen in this place...
Discussions are therefore by all means welcome, but, in the first place conceptual ones that help shedding new lights on that "musical corpus" we have been building up here and, crystallizing aesthetical trends, artistic structures...etc, and, of course, providing veririfed information, not exchanges of subjective appreciations pertaining to artistic taste.
I hope I succeeded this time.

Bassio
23-06-2007, 22:44
Let me try again to explain what this forum about!

Thank you for your patience with me sir :)


The Arab classical repertoire is not safe; it's not physically preserved as it is the case for the classical Western one. So, our first and minimum objective is to safeguard it by collecting and disseminating it. Hence, the upload/download feature.

Yeah I know and I know this is a great feature which I look forward to .. and I hope I can contribute to such a worthy cause. And I am happy that people like you are interested in this high art and preserving it and we will succeed .. inshaAllah.


not exchanges of subjective appreciations pertaining to artistic taste.

Point taken .. no subjective questions then.

(although I can't help seeing many of you openly displaying their tastes and discussing it in other threads ;))


Discussions are therefore by all means welcome, but, in the first place conceptual ones that help shedding new lights on that "musical corpus" we have been building up here and, crystallizing aesthetical trends, artistic structures...etc, and, of course, providing veririfed information

Great. Although I won't be a source of this 'verified information' .. since (as I explained before) I am not the one you can depend on when it comes to Arabic classical music.

I said before that my study and interest in western & Arabic classical music is limited. I only studied western music theory as an amateur "self-learner". And my knowledge in Arabic theory is approximately nil.

And since I can't be worthy in any 'verified' discussions of any sort .. then I am sorry that my contribution on this forum will only come to the few humble uploads that I will contribute. And Since my opinions/tastes/questions/subjective thoughts are not the focus of this forum, I better shut up then in presence of powerful musicians as the rest of you.

I really wished I knew the difference between a Hijaz Kar and a Saba to engage with you in such discussions. But my maximum addition to any discussion will be a lame 'the modulation to minor at this point is touching' like comment .. which IMO won't add much (and pretty much subjective).

And of course I would like to ask questions but I have to say that your tight rules about what is welcomed/unwelcomed, useful/useless made me weary.


I hope I succeeded this time.

Sure you did .. but you still did not answer my question! So can you guarantee me now that I can open a new thread for asking a 'theoretical' 'objective' question? Or will it be shunned? Or do I just resurrect old thread with my questions/comments?

Or is the only benefit I can gain from this site is 'the downloading option'?

Regards,

Najib
23-06-2007, 23:15
Let me clarify few things to you once and for all:

1- If you have a specific question about a certain thread, by all means resurrect the thread and ask your question. If it is outside the scope of the forum it will be deleted guaranteed. If it is of no interest to anyone, then no one will bother answering it. If it is a question asked after careful thinking then I am sure it will be answered.

2- I asked you to take your time browsing this forum. So do take your time. All what I can see is that you want to chat. This is not a chat forum. We have 100s of hours of rare Umm Kulthum material you will need a bit of silent and careful listening before posting anything like "what is your favourit Umm Kulthum moment"

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE, READ IT DIGEST IT, AND DON'T POST BEFORE YOU SPEND A GOOD AMOUNT OF DAYS BROWSING THIS FORUM

أبو علاء
24-06-2007, 01:19
Bassio, please, do follow Najib's advice, which was also mine on a couple of previous occasions.
Yes, all of us do not hesitate to state our respective preferences and subjective appreciations. But, this comes incidentally in our various discussions and you will not find a single thread devoted to purposefully to such exercice or based thereon.
Only a few of us do have a solid background in musical/musicological studies. There are a few more with some emprirical knowledge gained through listening and reading experience and a great majority without any specific knowledge at all.
It is obvious you have studied music and you're playing an instrument. None of these assertions appies to my modest person. Yet, I can tell when a song or instrumental piece is in saba or higazkar. I also know what's the difference between a dawr and a taqtuqah. But, I didn't gain such knowledge in a few minutes, hours or days by putting a series of questions and getting the answer to them. It took me some time during which, I had mostly to listen and, in doing so, once in a while, asking one or two questions to knowledgeable people.
I'm sure, with your theoretical background regarding such notions as the scale, notes, modes and the ability to easily distinguish tune and put a name on them, you'll put much shroter time to become familiar with fundamentals of Arab music. Nevertheless, listening and reading remain a sine qua non condition.
One last thing. Don't think there are a whole army of moderators to look after this forum, cope with registration requests, monitor threads, posts and attachments, update indexes, respond to members...etc. Our number is ridiculously low and we happen to have other commitments in life.
So, please, try and and avail yourself of all the material around with the accompanying comments/discussions. I'm sure you'll find some benefit therein and possibly the answers to some of your questions and let us carry on with our daily work.

Najib
24-06-2007, 10:52
Basso,

Since you want to learn about maqams please check this website:

www.maqamworld.com

Bassio
26-06-2007, 14:07
Basso,

Since you want to learn about maqams please check this website:

www.maqamworld.com

Yeah. Great site!