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مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : Oum Kulthum and Abu-El-Ila



Bassio
26-06-2007, 15:35
I would like to open a thread for Oum Kulthum's songs composed by her very own teacher Abu-El-Ila Mohamed.

Song: Amanan Ayuha Al Qamar

Composer: Abu-El-Ila Mohamed

More Info: needed

I heard in a radio interview by Um Kulthum that Abu-El-Ila Mohamed was the singer and composer for the 'Aristocrats'.

I guess this explains why he sings mostly Qasaed in Fusha. His tunes are the ones that can be described as 'highly-classy' indeed as Um Kulthum pointed.

This song is also one of my favorites.

fredlag@noos.fr
26-06-2007, 19:00
The reason why the qasa'id composed by Abu al-Ila Muhammad and sung by Umm Kulthum are not already on this forum escapes me completely. Either we were asleep, either we considered they were available in the commerce, but then this would apply to the adwar.
So I just imagine we overlook the problem, and concentrated on the original Abu al-Ela recordings, or Fathiyya Ahmad renditions. We will be taking care of this in a block, the whole bunch should be available in the next 48 hours.

Now, Bassio Effendi, the idea that Abu al-Ila Muhammad would be a singer/composer for "aristocrats" is both nonsense and depends on the translation. If this is the way you translate "al-nukhba", then it would make sense, in the meaning that Abu al-Ila is a representive of the Urban Art Music Repertoire of the late 19th-early 20th century. This music was indeed *commissioned* by the elite, both Egyptian and Ottomano-Egyptian, until the 1890 probably, when first the cafés-concerts took to relay in commissioning music ; from 1903 onwards, record companies became the main commissioners of music. But as far as "consuming" this music is concerned, this was definitely a trans-class experience. Remember al-Sayyid Ahmad ‘Abd al-Gawwad, a merchant in Gamaliyya, listening to al-Manyalawi in the opening pages of Mahfuz's "Bayn al-Qasrayn", or Umm Kulthum herself saying she first heard Abu al-Ila Muhammad on the Umda's phonograph. Now, the Umda of Tamay al-Zahayra hardly qualifies as an aristocrat. The linking of this music and "princes", "Turks", "Elite", etc. is all a construction of the Nationalist historiography of music, which aimed at justifying the deep transformations that occured in musical aesthetics during the 1920-1930, and chose some "icons" supposedly representative of the "progress" of music, in (ironically) a Darwinian conception of Progress. Such Icons were Sayyid Darwish, Muhammad 'Abd al-Wahhab, and Umm Kulthum.
As for the relationship between the use of classical poetry and the elite, it is much more subtle and complicated than what you seem to think. Go to the mulid of Zayn al-Abidin in al-Madbah (that's close to Sayyida Aisha, be3id 3annak) and you'll here even today Yasin al-Tuhami singing 9 century old poetry by Ibn al-Farid to peasants and car repairman who might not be able to spell their own names. The use of classical Arabic in the Urban vocal music of Cairo is a long tradition, linked to both Sufi brotherhoods and to the rediscovery of the Literary heritage in the age of the Nahda. So yes, once again, there something elitist in it, as far as choice and aesthetics are concerned, but again, everybody listened and enjoyed those pieces, and many people still do nowadays.

Bassio
26-06-2007, 20:53
So I just imagine we overlook the problem, and concentrated on the original Abu al-Ela recordings, or Fathiyya Ahmad renditions.

hmm ..

so do I stop uploading others I have? Notice I have difficulty in knowing which is commercially available and which is not that available.

Anyway if this is one of the commercially available recordings .. delete it .. but not after you give us the original Abu al-Ela recordings, or Fathiyya Ahmad renditions. :p


We will be taking care of this in a block, the whole bunch should be available in the next 48 hours.

Which recordings will be available ??? I am waiting .. sounds delicious to me. :p



Now, Bassio Effendi, the idea that Abu al-Ila Muhammad would be a singer/composer for "aristocrats" is both nonsense and depends on the translation.


Sorry for the bad choice of words

To be exact, I refered back to the interview. She mentioned .. 'wasat Raqy' .. 'El Gama3a el kobar' .. 'moghany lel tabaqa el mosakafa awy'.

I guess she might be correct .. in fact, when I first heard her words something really occured to me (but I am not sure if it is true or not).

The thing is that maybe Abu-El-Ila Mohamed represented the somewhat sophisticated 'classical' music of their day if you know what I mean. While on the other hand, the folksy tunes, taqtooqas .. etc. which were easier on the ear may be more accessible to the wider audience. Therefore almost all famous singers had to sing taqtooqas to gain widespread fame.

As I told you: regarding the notion that there was an apparent division of music those days to 'sophisticated' and 'folksy' - I can hold no ground for it. And I certainly want to hear your opinions especially in light of the exact words by Um Kulthum mentioned above.



The linking of this music and "princes", "Turks", "Elite", etc. is all a construction of the Nationalist historiography of music, which aimed at justifying the deep transformations that occured in musical aesthetics during the 1920-1930, and chose some "icons" supposedly representative of the "progress" of music, in (ironically) a Darwinian conception of Progress. Such Icons were Sayyid Darwish, Muhammad 'Abd al-Wahhab, and Umm Kulthum.

Interesting and I agree. I assume that this nationalist reasoning is false of course. (?!)

Abdel-Wahab turned to western for influence and I am sure that his choice is somewhat urban .. and does not represent the change in taste of the 'crowds' IMO.

As for Sayyed Darwish, he was really 'folksy' .. but I sense that he did not abandon his 'classical' heritage for the 'mainstream' .. listening to his Adwars make me think that way .. he considered them his 'classical' creations therefore he was sure he wanted himself to sing them.

As for Um Kulthum, I don't know but she sure is a central figure when considering the gradual transfer from 'classical' to 'mainstream' .. pulling her composers behind her of course (including AbdelWahab himself later on in the sixties when he first composed for her - she really had this power and authority - both over composers and the masses)

It is a very complicated matter trying to explain the history of music and changes in musical aesthetics especially when someone is explaining it from a subjective point of view.

Musicology can indeed be dangerous. ;)

Burhan
27-06-2007, 12:06
Dear Friends,

here are two links on the collaboration of Abul-3ila and UK previously posted on the forum:


http://zamanalwasl.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2278

http://zamanalwasl.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2277

Bassio
27-06-2007, 15:51
Dear Friends,

here are two links on the collaboration of Abul-3ila and UK previously posted on the forum:


http://zamanalwasl.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2278

http://zamanalwasl.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2277

Thank you Burhan. Somehow your uploads did not appear on the index. Therefore I duplicated your upload and I uploaded Amanan ayuha al Qamar.

I will go check out your uploads