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مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : إسطوانات opera disq company



BEN ARFA TAHAR
03-12-2007, 18:49
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته أستاذ فريد اكتشفت من يومين هذه الصور لاسطوانات opera disq company هل سجل عبد الحى حلمى و الشيخ سيد الصفتى واخرون لهذه الشريكة ؟؟؟؟ .تحياتى للجميع بن عرفة

luay
03-12-2007, 19:08
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته أستاذ فريد اكتشفت من يومين هذه الصور لاسطوانات opera disq company هل سجل عبد الحى حلمى و الشيخ سيد الصفتى واخرون لهذه الشريكة ؟؟؟؟ .تحياتى للجميع بن عرفة

Doesn't the picture on the right actually say that this is a record of Abd El Hayy Hilmi, with the Shawwa takht? So, I think the answer to your question is on the picture your uploaded :-)

Luay

kabh01
03-12-2007, 20:28
أؤكد ما قاله الأخ لؤي

التي على اليمين تقول:

ليالي الوصل (توشيح) 2

الشيخ سيد الصفطي

مع تخت الشوا


والتي على اليسار تقول (بعد تكبيرها):

أعتقد اما الوجه 2 أو 3 (غير واضح)

أسم الأغنيه غير واضح

عبد الحي أفندي حلمي

مع تخت الشوا


هل لك بأن تعمل scan أخي الفاضل بن عرفه بحيث تكون resolution أجود من اللتين رفعتهما؟

إنني مهتم جدا بذلك لأنني لأول مره أرى هذه الصحون رغم أنني سمعت عنها.

وشكرا مقدما

أبو كرم

BEN ARFA TAHAR
03-12-2007, 21:02
أؤكد ما قاله الأخ لؤي

التي على اليمين تقول:

ليالي الوصل (توشيح) 2

الشيخ سيد الصفطي

مع تخت الشوا


والتي على اليسار تقول (بعد تكبيرها):

أعتقد اما الوجه 2 أو 3 (غير واضح)

أسم الأغنيه غير واضح

عبد الحي أفندي حلمي

مع تخت الشوا


هل لك بأن تعمل scan أخي الفاضل بن عرفه بحيث تكون resolution أجود من اللتين رفعتهما؟

إنني مهتم جدا بذلك لأنني لأول مره أرى هذه الصحون رغم أنني سمعت عنها.

وشكرا مقدما

أبو كرم
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته ... kabh01.....عبد الحي أفندي حلمي قصيدة شكوت فقالت رقم الاسطوانة 60043

kabh01
03-12-2007, 21:07
وعليكم السلام. شكرا جزيلا أخي الفاضل

أبو كرم

fredlag@noos.fr
03-12-2007, 21:43
@ luay , @ tahar

بالعكس، لا أظن أن عبد الحي والصفتي سجلا لصالح هذه الشركة،
أظن أن هذه الاسطوانات هي بكل بساطة نسخ مسروقة من اسطوانات جراموفون، بسبب اضطرابات الحرب العالمية الأولى، ونفس الاسطوانات رأيتها منسوخة من قبل بوليفون، وها هي شركة أخرى أخذت ماتريكسات الإنجليز دون إذنهم
وما يجعلني أكاد أبت في الأمر هو التطابق التام في الخط بين إتيكاتات جراموفون وإتيكاتات هذه الشركة

luay
04-12-2007, 00:13
You're the expert Fred. I was just telling what's written on the picture.
I should stick to posting in the Om Kulthoum section: I make far fewer mistakes there :D

Luay


@ luay , @ tahar

بالعكس، لا أظن أن عبد الحي والصفتي سجلا لصالح هذه الشركة،
أظن أن هذه الاسطوانات هي بكل بساطة نسخ مسروقة من اسطوانات جراموفون، بسبب اضطرابات الحرب العالمية الأولى، ونفس الاسطوانات رأيتها منسوخة من قبل بوليفون، وها هي شركة أخرى أخذت ماتريكسات الإنجليز دون إذنهم
وما يجعلني أكاد أبت في الأمر هو التطابق التام في الخط بين إتيكاتات جراموفون وإتيكاتات هذه الشركة

fredlag@noos.fr
04-12-2007, 19:35
هذه المقالة إذن تأكيد لما كنت حدسته : هذه الاسطوانات نسخ غير قانونية لاسطوانات شركة جراموفون. شكرا على الإفادة يا أخ طاهر، فلم أكن أعرف هذه الاسطوانات «المقرصنة» القديمة

BEN ARFA TAHAR
04-12-2007, 19:53
تفضل يا أخ ابو علاء....مصدره www.mainspringpress.comopdisc.html
A RED SEAL BY ANY OTHER NAME
The Opera Disc Story
By Allan Sutton

The early 1920s were boom years for Victor's prestigious Red Seal records. Victor advertised its classical records on a grand scale, sparing no expense in recruiting the brightest stars of concert hall and opera house.

A few companies attempted, without much success, to challenge Victor's success in the classical field by importing material from European studios. In 1921, the General Phonograph Corporation, makers of Okeh and American Odeon records, began to reissue decade-old Odeon and Fonotipia masters recorded in Europe by John McCormack and other performers who had since signed exclusive Victor contracts in the United States. Victor undoubtedly looked askance at the practice, although sales of the classical Okehs and Odeons seem to have been negligible. However, there was little Victor could do about the situation. General Phonograph had licensed the material from its German affiliate, Carl Lindström Aktien-Gesellschaft (Berlin) and apparently was operating legally.

The Opera Disc Company, however, presented quite a different challenge.

The Opera Disc - Polyphonwerke Connection

In January 1921, Max Hesslein formed the Opera Disc Company, Inc., in New York to market classical and operatic recordings not only in direct competition with Victor's expensive Red Seals, but pressed from Victor's own masters. To obtain those masters, Opera Disc turned to Polyphonwerke Aktien-Gesellschaft of Berlin.

To understand how Polyphonwerke (and thus Opera Disc) came to possess Victor material, we have to backtrack to the earliest days of World War I in Europe. At that time, Deutschen Grammophon Aktien-Gesellschaft (DGA) operated as the German affiliate of the Gramophone Company, which in turn was the British affiliate of the Victor Talking Machine Company. As a Gramophone Company affiliate, DGA was entitled to use the "Master's Voice" trademark as well as material recorded by the Gramophone Company and Victor. Thus DGA legally acquired a large stock of Victor and H.M.V. matrices.

With the outbreak of European hostilities in Europe, Alexander Lucas took charge of DGA, and on August 14, 1914, he seized the Victor and Gramophone Company matrices in DGA's possession as spoils of war. Having severed relations with the Gramophone Company and Victor, DGA was reorganized as the independent Deutsche Grammophon Gesellschaft (DGG). In March 1917, Lucas licensed the Victor and Gramophone Company masters to DGG's newly created Polyphonwerke subsidiary, which produced records for export.

The war over, Polyphone tried to enter the booming American record market in the early 1920s as an import label specializing in German popular material and light classics, but it had little success. However, the company found a ready customer in Hesslein's Opera Disc Company. Polyphone agreed to supply Opera Disc with pressings from the Victor and Gramophone Company masters in its possession, which included material by Frances Alda, Lucrezia Bori, Enrico Caruso, Feodor Chaliapin, Julia Culp, Marcel Journet, Fritz Kreisler, Ignace Jan Paderewski, Antonio Scotti, and many other celebrities who were then under exclusive Victor contracts in the United States. A few of DGG's and Polyphone's own masters rounded out the series.

Opera Disc also made an unsuccessful attempt to enter the lucrative
ethnic record market in the U.S., as this rare Arabic issue shows.

Polyphone's masters were duplicated from the original parts and, because Opera Disc did not use sunken labels, Victor's original recording data often can be seen inscribed under the label area. However, the Germans reworked the "foreign" stampers with the addition of an outer raised ring and run-out spiral, so the pressings bear no physical resemblance to their Victor counterparts. The earliest version of the label (pictured on the left at the beginning of the article), in gold on purple, dark brown, or black, was simply pasted over the original German labels. Once the supply of surplus pressings was exhausted, Polyphone made new pressings bearing multicolored labels, with their lyre-playing nude rendered in a flat, fleshlike tone. The often-heard statement that Opera Discs were sold very cheaply is not true; their catalogs cite exactly the same list prices as those on the corresponding Victor releases.The first Opera Discs were ready for market by the spring of 1921. Hesslein filed a trademark application on the Musica brand, with seated lyre-playing nude, on June 21, 1921, claiming use of the trademark on records beginning March 25 of that year. Opera Disc sales seem to have been lackluster, although pressing quality was good, prices competitive, and the artist roster first-rate. As a result, many Opera Disc issues are far rarer than the corresponding original issues. Some remarkable rarities were also reissued, including several of Caruso's 1903 G&T sides.

Victor lost no time in bringing legal action against the Opera Disc venture, but the company continued to issue catalogs into 1922, their last year of operation. In that year, the matter was referred to the Anglo-German Mixed Arbitral Tribunal in London. The tribunal ordered that DGG and Polyphonwerke be restrained from exporting Victor- and Gramophone Company-derived pressings. However, it did allow continued sale of such material in Germany and did not issue a ruling against the New York-based Opera Disc Company, which was outside its jurisdiction. At the same time, Victor brought suit against Opera Disc in the U.S. District Court at Brooklyn, New York.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The Victor Company has always had exclusive rights in the
United States in the renditions embodied in these records..."

Talking Machine World, 1923

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The District Court dealt the final blow to Opera Disc on March 31, 1923, when it handed down an injunction against Hesslein, the Opera Disc Company, and the Opera Disc Distributing Corporation. Under terms of the ruling, Opera Disc was prohibited from importing, purchasing, selling, advertising, or dealing in any way in records or matrices by artists under exclusive contract to Victor. In addition, the injunction required the company to turn over all records, catalogs, and advertising material in its possession to Victor. The Talking Machine World termed the judgment "a sweeping recognition of the Victor Company's rights to all the renditions involved."

Symphony Concert Record and Other Pirates

Opera Disc was not the only American company to use Red Seal material illegally. In 1919 John Fletcher's Operaphone Company had introduced its Symphony Concert Record which, suspiciously enough, used a label design identical to that of to a pre-1914 German-produced export label of the same name. Operaphone's descendant, the Olympic Disc Record Corporation, continued to produce the label. Ten-inch Symphony Concert records drew on John Fletcher's own Olympic masters and featured the usual popular and light classical fare. However, a twelve-inch classical and operatic series was pressed from pre-World War I masters recorded by Victor and The Gramophone Company. It is thought that these pressings were made from the reworked original metal parts, possibly by way of DGG, but there is a chance that the stampers were illegally plated from commercial pressings, much as Winant V.Z. Bradley's Continental Record Company had done a decade earlier. Fletcher pressed the records at his Long Island City plant (the same plant in which Black Swan discs were pressed), and they show the Fletcher plant's characteristic label typography and sunken ring around the spindle hole.
Yet another pirate label of this period was Pan-American, which also drew on Victor and Gramophone masters and was also pressed at the Fletcher plant. The distributor of this obscure and very short-lived brand remains unknown, but its stampers obviously were plated illegally from commercial pressings. On some issues, the incompletely effaced Victor or Gramophone Company stampings and minor imperfections copied from the original pressings can still be seen.
تحياتى للجميع بن عرفة