مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : The Correct Hilmi 'Pitch' Project

26-05-2008, 13:37
First, again I apologize for the absence(s) and the erratic and humble contributions to the forum. This forum deserves from us more than that.

My brother earlier commented as I listened to Hilmi's Ahdel-Ikhiwa (Gramophone) that his voice is very sharp that it is 'not human', he said the pitch is unnaturally high. I argued with him there are many high-pitched Arab performers/reciters (AbdelBaset, Nakshabandy come to mind)

To get to the point, I discovered that many of Hilmi's recordings here on the forum has variable pitches to an almost ridiculous extent given the narrow time period he recorded in. If Hilmi wasn't able to morph his voice (of if his voice did not change in his later recordings), then we are only left with one voiceprint of his that is the correct one.
This problem is rarely encountered in recordings of Manyalwi, Murad and others on the forum. (I believe some early OK also show some variations)

My suggestion is for the samee3a is to pinpoint/upload a clip that they think represent the correct pitch of his voice which 'generically' will fit most (not all) of his recordings.

And I will accordingly try to fix the pitch of the rest of the recordings on the forum (this is easy with Adobe Audition which has a raise pitch option) and upload the corrected versions accordingly.

27-05-2008, 03:57
At last someone comes to my aid. I have to say that this problem is not limited to Hilmi, it exists with voices as familiar as that of Um Kolthoum.

But I have to tell you that this is a matter that needs a lot of discussion, and that you should not alter the files before the most experienced of the forum have reached a consensus on the issue.

I have previously suggested a standardized process that was rendered impossible by 3amr (Al'awwal) because there were no standard pitches at the time of these recordings. Is this the final say?

15-06-2008, 15:48
In fact Oum Kulthum's problem in this particular matter may be worse than Hilmi's!!

I hope anyone can inform us on these matters .. OK's songs have very variable pitches even on commercial CDs??!!

We can use any help we can get.

Like you, I am waiting for 3amr too to join us on this particular matter too, I deduct that he was not around these days.

16-06-2008, 04:52
The process that I suggested is based on using a simple tuner to define the basic pitch of a particular Maqam, and trying to move that pitch in the vicinity of the correct one.

3amr's argument is that there is no reference for the pitches, since there was no standardized tuning at the time, and the players could and did alter their tuning to meet the singers voice.

I see no particular reason why one singer would sing the same Maqam in two different pitches at the same stage of his or her life. And it does not sound like a matter of diversity: take for Example Hilmi's Asarat Fuadi and Asaqiyaya, both on Bayyati, from the same time roughly, the only difference is the recording company, which might mean that the recording speed could have been different.

I have a question: can any other element - except the speed - affect the pitch? If so then we might start altering pitches without altering speed, which would be a life saver for me.

One last remark to the other members. We are not crazy. Listen to Umm Kolthoum's "Ana 'Ala Kifak" and tell me how can you sleep at night knowing that this unique jewel is so messed up. I had a friend who bought one of Umm Kolthoums "Old songs" tapes that had "Ma trawa' Dammak" sped up somewhere about 15%, and he used to listen to it and scream with joy.

Maybe ears can get through el khaskhashah (like in 3amr and Shami's case) but can they get through pitch errors? I should quit listening then.