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مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : Amateur Questions



AmrB
30-10-2008, 12:55
I am terribly embarrassed while I keep asking these question where people seem to be eager for a much more sophisticated type of knowledge, anyway.

1- Why is Dur Asli l-Gharam classified as Rast and not as Suznak, despite the prominence of the Higaz Gins in the Gawab? Forgive me if I made any horrible mistakes, but please let me know if you spot one.

2- What is Zankulah?

Najib
30-10-2008, 13:12
1- Hi Amr. I don't know how good is your french but Fred's thesis (uploaded on this forum) has got a chapter about the Egyptian nomenclature. In that you will find that when the Egyptians say Rast it could be Rast or Suznak.

2- Zinkulah is a special turkish maqam. We thought it is Zangaran but it isn't. Checkout the web for it and you better listen to Turkish pieces under this maqam then to listen to Arabic pieces claiming that they are Zinkulah while in fact they are not.

3- Don't ever be embarrassed :-)

AmrB
30-10-2008, 14:47
Najib,

I am, yet again, very grateful for your kind response. I would bother you a bit more and ask, in a more precise classification, Asli l-Gharam is therefore Suznak?

Also thank you for referring me to Fred's thesis, I didn't know it was on the forum.

Amr

أبو علاء
30-10-2008, 15:26
My humble view is that, although Arab suznak is different from Turkish one and stands more as rast containing a variation in higaz, I don't think we can equally describe the same any piece as being rast or suznak. For me, pieces in suznak are ones that start in suznak (the variation mentioned above is then clearly perceivable) and end in sheer rast. This applies to hulm, the famous tahmilah often called tahmila rast, el-bulbul gani, 'a'shaq biruhi maliki-l-gamal, ramani sihami-l-'in, maliki 'ana 'abdak, fu'adi fi hawak
fatni wihagir...etc
You have also an excellent example of suznak in the last section of gaddidti hubbak - yalli hawak fi-l-fu'ad 'ayish fi dhilli-l-widad. In view of the above, 'asli-l-gharam is not in suznak , but simply in rast.

Najib
30-10-2008, 19:18
And the same applies to Ya Shadil Al Alhan. People classify it as Suznak but really it's a rast with a hint of higaz nawa. Doesn't make it Suznak.

AmrB
31-10-2008, 05:42
Thank you so much Abu Alaa and Najib.

I am wondering - and I know how busy you are all are - if somebody would volunteer to host an extensive and systematic discussion on the issue of Maqamat in the Studies section or here in the Forum's Forum.

I know it is much easier to answer questions and analyze pieces ad hoc but I am afraid that the enormous theoretical effort exerted in the forum is too diffuse that it leaves novices like myself totally confused.

Just a suggestion Abu Alaa, just a suggestion.

أبو علاء
31-10-2008, 12:27
I am wondering - and I know how busy you are all are - if somebody would volunteer to host an extensive and systematic discussion on the issue of Maqamat in the Studies section or here in the Forum's Forum.
I know it is much easier to answer questions and analyze pieces ad hoc but I am afraid that the enormous theoretical effort exerted in the forum is too diffuse that it leaves novices like myself totally confused.
Just a suggestion Abu Alaa, just a suggestion.
There's no harm in making suggestions except when they are extravagant and contrary to common sense, let alone the forum principles and policy, which, of course, is not the case of this one. In the first place, we would need somebody qualified enough to run this thread (I am certainly not one) who is available for this job. But, the biggest problem is how to run a thread that tries and familiarizes people with maqams, the specificities of each of one and the differences between them without indulging into the well known tendency to privilege theoretical pre-established models developed by the Turks or some Arabs, which are beyond the reach of laymen (they are beyond mine anyway) and often contradict the practice in real music? If you dig well in the forum sections and threads, you'll find a few illustrations of this trend.
So, unless somebody comes up with a more realistic approach, I do prefer such punctual interventions as this one and I find it much more useful than any systematic screening of the maqam realm.