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مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : Sama'ai Hussainy , Tatyus



Khair Ahmed
30-11-2005, 01:35
سماعي حسيني طاطيوس أفندي

mabrouk
01-12-2005, 00:22
شكرا لك اخ خير
عندي نسخة مختلفة لنوتة هذا السماعي

Hattouma
01-12-2005, 00:30
مبروك يا ريت ترفعها إن إستطعت ..من أي مصدر أو كتاب هي ؟
و السؤال موجه أيضاً للأخ خير ..ما هي أهم أو أدق المصادر (أو الكتب) في رأيك؟

Najib
07-12-2005, 17:51
Dear Hatim,

For these everlasting beautiful samai you cannot avoid learning from the source which is the Turkish notation. Unfortuantely a lot is lost when these precious pieces are translated to Arabic/European notation.

The best source is:

http://www.turkmusikisi.com

Salamat

Najib

3amr
08-03-2006, 13:41
turkmusikisi is definitely the best source in the business.

I have a little question though, what do you think is the best way to get used to turkish notation? You see, at the end of the school year sort of celebration (we're doing a part of jisr il 2amar by fayrouz), we're planning on doing a sama3i also (I'ld have preferred two or three, can't seem to get enough of them). The problem is, they're all turkish (and need to be arabicized or something for them to be played, considering my teacher who's playing oud only understands arabic, and the keyboard player can't get anything turkish out of the keyboard. I would like however to use the original sheet for myself (which is the reason behind the question.

in this situation, what would you think is the best sama3i we can play (I am thinking about the tatyos suznak, but I'm not sure).

bayati il 3aryan is my pick for now.

Amr (and sorry for the very long first post)

Najib
12-03-2006, 20:43
Your posting are never long, and always interesting.

I was hoping for someone to raise up the subject.

Transforming from Turkish to Arabic notation is extremely easy.

Let's do this on a practical level.

Pickup a piece of a Turkish semai (in Turkish notation), and let me help you do either of the following:

- Transform it to Arabic notation

- Play it directly - Train your brain to visually play immediately on an Arabic instrument from a Turkish notation. Something that I have successfully done over the last two years.

Let me know
Najib

3amr
12-03-2006, 22:20
It is always good to meet nice and helpful people, and hopefully we'll be discussing this in more detail (supposing I do well on my physics test tomorrow). I don't know if this should have its separate thread, but here goes anyway.

About the conversion to arabic notation, I'm fairly proficient with Sibelius, and I've used it to transpose things for our choir pianist that are CONSIDERABLY nastier to transpose than a simple monophonic sama3i. But I can't start typesetting music everytime I want to play something, so we move to the next option.

About playing it directly, after consideration, I think the process would be very much dependant on what instrument I intend to play on. As far as oud is concerned, I've been using some tricks to help me, the most useful is simply playing everything as written but an octave below, that conserves the figer positions intended, and simply jumping up a string, you'ld be playing the makams as you should be playing them. But that is a shortcut, and is not solving the thing from the root, not to mention it's not applicable for other instruments. The instrument I'll be playing (to my misfortune, as I prefer the oud), is a conventional western alto recorder (plastic student quality thing). You can imaging me sitting there messing around with the thing, trying to figure out a fingering for the segah, which I need for bayati. I've managed to play the sama3il 3aryan complete with all the microtones in it, but it doesn't leave me much room to transpose.

The solution I've considered, is basically playing it as written, and once the intervals have sunk in, I'll just move it to the new tonic (2asabee3i bidabbro 7alon). But again, only a shortcut.

The only solution I can think of, is for me to associate a note on a turkish staff directly with the name of the step in turkish (segah, dugah, irak etc...), and thus, I can get a mental image of the mode I'm playing in relation to steps that are not pitch specefic. What I mean by not pitch specific, is that Dugah can be either the D-string on an arabic oud, or the E I beleive on a turkish oud, in any case, I would have to forget that it's a D-string, and just call it a "the dugah".

I'll be messing around the recorder these couple of days with the Tatyos Suzinak sema3i, and seeing how this all applies to my poor recorder.

(this time, an undeniably long post)

3amr

Najib
12-03-2006, 22:42
Naming things by their persian name Dukah, Rast, Gurdaniye is absolutely the right thing to do because you can communicate with Turkish musician and Arabic musician and they'll both understand you.

All what you need is to lower the Turkish notations by a fifth so wha't written as a sol in their system will become Do on our system. You can actually visually see it and play it directly on an Oud be it a Trukish Oud or Arabic Oud.

Worst case you can shift everything down by two places on Sibelius (so what's on a line like sol (Turkish) you shift it down by two lines (becomes do), what on a space La (Turkish) becomes Re in our music.

Personally I've learnt to play their sol as my rast their la as my dukah and so on.

It worked!

3amr
13-03-2006, 06:41
Personally I've learnt to play their sol as my rast their la as my dukah and so on.

It worked!

well, that's precisely what I intend to do (once I get my oud sent to saida and back for repairs), I'm going to print a good batch of sama3is today (Cemil Bey's ferahfaza, isfahan, Tatyos' Suzinak and Karcigar, and Farabi's isfahan (a bit simpler than cemil bey's). among others.

In the mean time, I'll be memorizing turkish notenames directly from the staff (with out the benefit of associated pitches such as A, B and C). that is, second space is simply dugah, where as first line below staff is rast, and so on. Hopefully I'll be able to shake off the westernization of my musical reading (at the same time when I'm trying to learn bass cleff for choir work, talk about a conflict of interests.)

after today, I'll be a bit more free to (at least try to) contribute something here.

thanks again.

Amr (and they say london's weather is terrible, come visit beirut these couple of days)