PDA

مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : مصطفى بك رضا



أبو علاء
27-02-2006, 19:46
مصطفى بك رضا مثال نادر عن الفنّان الهاوي المهتمّ بالتّراث الغنائيّ والموسيقيّ الكلاسيكيّ المصريّ، وقد كرّس حياته لذلك الفنّ دون يكون به إليه حاجة للارتزاق ؛ وكان له شأنه كعازف وملحّن ومربّ ومنظّم وحسبنا من ذلك أن نذكر أنّه كان أحد أهمّ الشّخصيّات وراء تنظيم أوّل مؤتمر للموسيقى العربيّة سنة 1932 فضلا عن كونه كان من أهمّ من ساهم خلال المؤتمر في تسجيل جانب كبير من التّراث من موشّحات وأدوار بمعيّة درويش الحريري وداود حسني وعزيز عثمان ومحمّد نجيب ؛ وأقدّم لكم هنا نماذج من عزفه على آلة القانون، وقد كان ممّن اختاروا التّمسّك بالشّكل التّقليديّ للآلة ورفض استعمال العرب شأنه في ذلك شأن محمّد العقّاد الكبير.


1. تقسيم نهاوند مرسل
2. تقسيم راست على الوحده
3. سماعي نهاوند يوسف باشا
4. سماعي جهاركاه صفر بيك علي



Here are samples of the music of the famous non-professional Egyptian qanun player Mustafa Bek Ridah who lived in the first half of the twentieth century. He was also a composer, but most of all he was a prominent activist in promoting musical culture. In particular, he played an important role in the organisation of the first congress of Arab music in 1932 during which he recorded a great deal of the classical repertoire along with Darwish Al-hariri, 'aziz 'uthman, Dawud Husni and Muhammad Najib.

oudman
27-02-2006, 21:04
ألف شكر لك يا أخي أبو علاء على احياء ذكرى هذا العملاق الكبير الذي تناسته اذاعاتنا وفنانينا وكان قمة شامخة ذا اسلوب فريد وجميل جدا....

أبو علاء
27-02-2006, 21:16
العفو يا أخي العزيز ؛ لقد رفعت أيضا لحنين لمصطفى رضا :

طقطوقة المرأة بين القديم والحديث
http://www.zamanalwasl.net/forums/showthread.php?t=722

وموشّح وغزال أتمنّى وصله
http://www.zamanalwasl.net/forums/showthread.php?t=662&page=9

mabrouk
28-02-2006, 00:02
شكرا جزيلا اخي الكريم
جاري التحميل

أبو علاء
28-02-2006, 09:16
العفو يا مبروك ؛ لقد طالت غيبتك عنّا حتّى كدنا ننساك.:)

mabrouk
28-02-2006, 09:29
عفوا لكن المشكلة اني اتفرج فقط في غالب الاحيان لاني فقدت الاصال السريع منذ اشهر و رجعت الى الاتصال البطيئ 45 كيلو اوكتي في الثانية و هو ما يمنعني من لبتمتع بالملفات القيمة

أبو علاء
28-02-2006, 10:25
على الرّحب والسّعة سواء أجئت مشاركا أم مشاهدا.

3amr
11-03-2006, 16:41
the last piece had an a rather annoying low frequency buzz.

I have done some touching up with adobe audition. I believe it's a bit clearer now. What do you think?

Amr

3amr
11-03-2006, 16:50
the only bit of Mustafa Bey Rida I have. from the Zeryab forum.

I took the liberty of upsampling it and converting it to mono.

Dolap and Taksim Rast

أبو علاء
18-03-2006, 22:09
Thanks Amr for this nice recording (I suppose you meant you converted it from mono to stereo). The quality is excellent. I assume the source is one of Zeryab's good collection of disks. Unfortunately, my own recordings were made from radio broadcast received through am waves, hence the rumbling you rightly signalled. I'm not conversant with Adobe Audition. I generally use Sound Forge. It goes without saying any technical contribution is most welcome.

3amr
19-03-2006, 17:21
you're welcome,

the source is zeryab's amazing disk collection.

as for adobe audition, it's basically cool edit but with a new name. I have converted it from sterio to mono on purpose, because old disks and old tapes were recorded in mono, having them in sterio is basically useless considering that both channels are already identical (you don't gain any extra definition), you just get a bigger file size for nothing. The problems are further complicated when the two channels are not only identical, but also out of phase, which is a huge problem with my iraqi recordings for example, there is no remedy then but to invert one of them, or, discard one of the two channels, which is my usual course.

I am glad to help when I can, and as for the rumble, I have removed it from the file and uploaded it. The hicaz wasla by Mahmud Mursi for example has a high frequency hiss which I also got rid off, but it's a bit big for me to upload it again.

In any case, I'ld be glad to try to help with any file that's giving you problems (hiss and rumble are particularly easy to get rid off).

Amr

أبو علاء
19-03-2006, 18:14
I don't know, I never could get used to Cooledit/Adobe Audition. I found it a bit complicated and most of all too slow as compared to Sound Forge. But, from the terminology you're using, I see you're far more expert in these things than me. I did understand the question of identical channels (I think it is the case in most of old Arab music files), but I don't understand what "out of phase" means. Usually, I utilize noise reduction plugin in Sound Forge to remove rumble and hiss but it often alter the whole sound quality. It would be interesting to open a technical section with explanations/tutorials for this kind of complicated sound file manipulations.

3amr
19-03-2006, 20:59
channels are out of phase when one of them is a fraction of a second late compared to the other, that way, at any given time each ear is hearing something slightly different to the other. You cannot perceive this time delay because it's so small, what you do perceive however is that the music is very annoying to listen to.

as for noise reduction, I never ever use it because it kills the music. I even listen to opera recordings from 1903 for example, and don't mind the noise at all. When you listen to a fresh recording compared to an edited and abused one, you notice how much vitality the voice loses. It then sounds like he's singing in a box or underwater. The rumble or high frequency hiss removal I was talking about is when there is an external interference as in the case of radio reception. You get a sound that is constant, and well out of the frequency range used by the music, in this case, you can just delete the rumble as it is without any risk to the music.

to be more clear about the phase question. I have attached the same phrase sung by Isak al Gazi, once with both channels identical and perfectly in phase, and once indentical and perfectly out of phase. Place your stereo speakers well apart, turn the volume up, and listen to the difference.

I love these technical discussions, but I am perfectly useless with sound forge considering I haven't even seen it, let alone used it. I might however be of use with adobe audition. Alternatively, I can do my best in repairing any files you wish to post that may have uncomfortable noise levels or something of the sort. (small note: it is always very important to have as much musical silences as possible during a track you are trying to denoise, because you use the silence to capture a profile of the noise that is coming from the record itself, in a bid to remove it without much damage to the music, alternatively, you can just get used to the noise from old 78's and just enjoy the music).

Amr

Hattouma
22-03-2006, 10:35
Thanks Amr for this intersting info ..I use Adobe's CoolEdit too but a bigenner in it ..i did notice lately that using noise reduction works best only if there's a music pause ,otherwise one uses music as well..I noticed also using NR to remove the tape constant noise (between the tracks ) is better than using Hiss reduction ,what do ou think ?
I think i will open a thread for such matters ..
Best Regards,
Hatim

3amr
22-03-2006, 15:45
I haven't really tried using NR instead of hiss reduction to reduce hiss, mainly because I have never tried to reduce hiss, considering it doesn't really bother me.

I think many factors intervene in such operations, mainly the amplitude of the noise, and it's relative location with respect to the music. Music and Noise that overlap are pretty much impossible to seperate without some damage to the music. It helps if you capture the noise profile using a musical silence, the longer the silence the better, and the bigger the FFT size again, better.

It also helps if you customize the noise reduction by decreasing it for frequency ranges that have alot of music in them. You'ld have to check out the spectral analysis, try to remove, and see the result, over and over again until you're satisfied.

Personally, I don't see the point of it all. A high quality transfer from a clean original and a good bitrate are much much more important than all the noise reduction in the world.

Amr

أبو علاء
22-03-2006, 17:38
I totally agree with you 3amr (that is on the question of principle, not the technical aspect, at which I'm not that good).

3amr
22-03-2006, 20:09
It is, I believe, a matter of principle. The better the conversion system is from the analogue disks to digital mp3's the warmer and brighter the voices will be. As for the noise, any serious listner can just ignore it. I've tried it and it works. There's no sense in mutilating the sound just to get rid of some pops and clicks which are not much of a distraction when it comes to classical arabic music anyhow.

Amr

أبو علاء
22-03-2006, 20:24
Absolutely right. I think there is a case, though, where one does need those sophistcated software to improve sound quality of the recording and that is when the recording was made of radio broadcast received on am (medium waves or short waves). Almost 70-80 per cent of my recroding are of this kind, most recroded from Cairo Radio as received in Tunisia (so with bad to medium quality reception). There, your technical know how might be helpful.

3amr
29-03-2006, 12:49
I'll try my best, and if any recording bothers someone, I can attempt to fix it, but it doesn't always work as smoothly as I wish. For example, I was trying to put the ahlel hawa recording by Sheikh zakariyya (posted by the najib, alla yzeed min fadlo), which appears to be a radio recording, into better shape. I have failed miserably with it: the phase difference between the channels is all over the place, and I don't have the lest idea how to go about fixing it, and there is a high pitched tone in the backgroud (radio reception again I guess), which overlaps with the music, and I won't even dare to touch it.

Ahmad Saleh
15-01-2012, 22:24
سماعي النهاوند والمرفوع هنا - أعلاه - ليس صحيحاً , ولم يؤدّ بأمانة , كما هو مثبت في الأصل , وفي تسليمه تصحيف كبير , وتغيير واسع , وبشكل يغير مسار فكرة اللحن والتي أرادها الملحن , إضافة إلى بعض الغييرات الأخرْ , والتي غيرت مسار لحن هذا السماعي الجليل , والذي يعدّ عند أربابه , عمدة سماعيات مقام النهاوند , وبأسلوبه الكلاسيكي البحت والمعتق , ( إنه سماعي النهاوند ليوسف باشا )
قد آثرت رفعه وبعدة تسجيلات ( نفيسة ) وخاصة من قبلي , وليست موجودة بمكان آخر , لأنه وبالرغم من عظمة هذا السماعي وتربعه على عرش سماعيات هذا المقام , إلا أن الاتراك لم يتداولوه كثيراً ويتناولونه بمثل ما فعلوا مع سماعي النهاوند لمسعود جميل , مع أن الأول كلاسيكي , والأخير هذا يمتاز بالحداثة وبإبراز التكنيك
وهو مقدم هنا بثلاثة تسجيلات , مرتبة وبحسب أهميتها عندي , وأكثرها توفيقا - وبرأيي :
1- السماعي هنا , هو الأفضل وبرأيي وهو مأخوذ من عقب فصل نهاوند , ومن تسجيلي الخاص
2- والتسجيل هنا أيضاً هو مأخوذ من عقب فصل تركي آخر
3- التسجيل هنا - كان ضمن قالب ( الساز أسار لار ) وهو أيضاً مما لا بأس به
يرجى المقارنة فيما بين هؤلاء الثلاث والمتطابقين مع بعضهم البعض , وبين التسجيل المرفوع أعلاه ( خصوصاً عند التسليم في السماعي ) وسيلاحظ مدى الفرق الهائل في التبديل , وكم هو الفرق في الخشوع المتجلى , والخيال اللذيذ في التسجيل الأول عند التسليم , عن التسليم والمؤدى في تسجيل مصطفى بك رضا , والمعلوم (أن السماعي بتسليمه )
بداية التسليم في التسجيل الأول والذي رفعته هو الواقع في 50 ثانية من التسجيل
وللأسف فقد أخذ أغلب المؤلفين الموسيقيين العرب هذا السماعي وتناولوه بالتنويط وبمثل ما ورد في نسخة مصطفى رضا بك ( وقد اطلعت علي نوطته وعلى سبيل المثال عند المؤلف عبد الرحمن الجبقجي وغيره ) فوجدتهم قد دونوه للباحثين والطلاب مصحفاً ومغايراً للأصل , وأحببت أن أثبت الأصل والصح , للمهتميين بالتنويط وبأصل الألحان .. لدى كل باحث مدقق , وصاحب علم

أبو علاء
16-01-2012, 01:00
مما دام يوسف باشا نفسه لم يخالف القواعد والعرف والتّقليد في صياغة السّماعي فلا بأس.