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مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : دور مهمل من أدوار داود حسني وأمّ كلثوم



أبو علاء
26-03-2006, 00:37
حقّا غريب أمر هذا الدّور، فهو من أجمل ما لحّن في مقام الشّوري من أدوار وهو بين أدوار أمّ كلثوم الّتي لحّنها لها داود حسني لا يقلّ جمالا عن كنت خالي ويوم الهنا حبّي صفا لي وكلّما يزداد رضا قلبك عليّ، ومع ذلك فهو أقلّ الأدوار العشرة شيوعا على الإطلاق ؛ وهو موجود لديّ على شريط كاسيت قديم، وكنت قد نويت جلبه من تونس لنقله إلى الحاسوب، إلاّ أنّي لم أجده ضمن المجموعة الّتي جلبتها ؛ وقد رفعه أحد أعضاء منتدى زرياب ضمن تسجيل لبرنامج من الإذاعة السّوريّة عن مقام البياتي نتهزت الفرصة لرفعه لمن لا يعرفه.

تم إبدال الملف بملف جودته أعلى


يا فؤادي إيه ينوبك مالأنين



Dawr Ya fu'adi 'ih yinubak mi-l-'anin, in bayati shuri mode, composed by Dawud Husni and interpreted by 'um kalthum

luay
26-03-2006, 04:30
Thanks Abu A'laa. I don't think I heard this dawr before!!!
Question: how do you compare the Zakariya's and Husni's dawrs that Om Kulthoum sang?

Luay

Hattouma
26-03-2006, 17:20
شكرا أبو علاء على الدور الجميل وجدته عندي بجودة أعلى و أبدلت الملف (أكيد من ملفات نفس المنتدى من فترة طويلة) لا أتذكر إني سمعته و الدور فعلا غير موجود على إسطوانات نادي الأسطوانة العربية أو
EMI : :La Diva

Najib
27-03-2006, 14:47
شكرا يا حاتم على هديتك - الأولى :)

أبو علاء
27-03-2006, 15:34
I agree man,

I think Daoud in Adwars is like Qasabgi in the monologues for Umm Kulthum.

There is a massive amount of brain work involved, which, from an astaethic point of view doesn't always guarantee the listener's satisfaction. Personally I love the Daoud's dawrs that I've heard so far.

However when it comes to taqateeq, I prefer Zakaria!

أبو علاء
27-03-2006, 16:47
Luay, you'll have realized, I hope, that the latest comment was posted by Najib despite the signature at the bottom. This is another subreptitious token of Najib's to have me endorse his own views.:) More seriously, Najib was commenting on my own post that he overwrote by mistake. What I wrote was that, inspite of my liking Zakariya's music, I think there's no comparison possible with Dawud Husni when it comes to the dawr. My view is that these two belong to two different eras in the history of Arab music. When Zakariya came in with his adwar, the dawr as a pattern was already on its way to extinction. After all, jutst look how many dawrs Zakariya composed in all and compare that to Dawud Husni's record! I don't have the exact figure, but the imbalance is obvious. In fact, speaking of ratios, I would venture and say, for me, Dawud Husni come on top of the list of dawr composers, including 'uthman, Hamuli and Maslub, based on the ratio of outstanding pieces to the total number of compostiions. I have to add, though, I didn't have the chance to listen to as many compositions of Hamuli or 'uthman as to thos of Dawud Husni. What strikes me most about Husni's style is his extraodinary ability to compose long pieces with a great variety of of melodies and rythms, lengthy sentences and quite complex structures, yet maintaining a knife-edge level of emotion all along. (Sorry, but I can see that my English writing skills clearly don't cope with the level of my own emotions. But I just hope you see what I mean beyond my bad English).
I agree with Najib concerning taqtuqah for the simple reason that, there again, they didn't compose the same kind of taqtuqahs. Behind the common term and a single general structural pattern lie a mcuh more complex variety with significant differences both in the contexts and the purposes between the two musicians.

luay
27-03-2006, 17:05
So, Najib is abusing his authority to change opinions on the forum; I hope he won't overwrite one of my posts and "make me say" that Wahab was the greatest composer ever :-)
I didn't know it was Najib, but I had suspicions that it was not you, Abu A'laa, when I read the first three words "I agree man"... I said to myself "This is not Abu A'laa's language" :-)

I agree with both of you regarding the dawrs that these two geniuses composed (I can't comments on the dawrs by others since I haven't heard any); also, the dawrs I've heard from these two guys are only the ones I heard from Om Kulthoum.
I like Najib's contrast of Husni's dawr composition with Qassabji's monologue composition. The "brain work" in these two genres by these two guys probably was too hard for the ear, and once again, takes us back to the question of OK and Qassabji (and probably, OK and Husni, since I don't think he composed for her much).

Anyway, beautiful dawr and beautiful performance.

Thanks.
Luay

Hattouma
27-03-2006, 18:29
Get out .. it is not only Abu Alaa's Language , da kaman mesh khattou : ): )


I agree man,

I think Daoud in Adwars is like Qasabgi in the monologues for Umm Kulthum.

There is a massive amount of brain work involved, which, from an astaethic point of view doesn't always guarantee the listener's satisfaction. Personally I love the Daoud's dawrs that I've heard so far.

However when it comes to taqateeq, I prefer Zakaria!

أبو علاء
27-03-2006, 18:53
Dawud Husni composed in all 12 dawrs for 'um kalthum, of which 10 have reached us in commercial recordings, against 9 by Zakariya. All those dawrs were produced in a relatively short lapse (fouur or five years maximum). Husni died a few years later (1937) and Zakariya who lived much longer didn't offer 'um kalthum more dawrs probably because the age of dawr in genral was already over, as I wrote above, and because 'um kalthum was heading towards a new kind of songs, the one that was going to make her live concerts and which was made of a sort of synthesis of monologue and "upgraded" taqtuqah. This said, Luay, you should depart a little bit from your "all 'um kalthum" choice and listen to previous works, particularly dawrs, and there are lots of them around in this forum, composed by Dawud Husni as well as Hamuli, 'uthman, Maslub and so forth.

luay
28-03-2006, 02:52
Abu A'laa,
Probably it's time for me to clarify my "all Om Kulthoum" choice, as you put it. The first music I remember hearing at our home was of Om Kulthoum (Holm, El Awwela, Raqq El Habib, and this bunch :-), and to illustrate a major difference between you and me: almost 25 years later, I still can't tell the maqam of a single song, whereas you can now correct people's mistakes with the maqams. What this illustrates is that despite some shared interests in some genres of music, we have different general interests. There are many factors that divert my attention from many songs: poor recording quality, studio recordings, and a bad voice. What I love about something like Raqq El Habib, Gholobt Asaleh, or El Awwela is that they are great live performances, in great recording quality (given the time they were recorded), and by a very beautiful voice (again, the lyrics and music are out of the equation here, since as I said, many songs from that period and before, and by other singers, had these two factors in them). To illustrate: Saleh Abd El Hayy's voice does not appeal to me, yet, Leh Ya Banafseg is one of my all-time favorites. The dawrs by Manyalawi and others are of very poor recording quality that I can't enjoy listening to for a long time.
Interpreting music to me is something related to what "speaks" to me, rather than something that critics have decided to be the best. For example, althought it might sound outrageous and probably ignorant to some, I don't care much for Sayyed Darwich's music; it doesn't speak to me. You often mentioned Zakariya as a continuation to Darwich's music. To me, that's not the case. Holm "kills" me, whereas none of Darwich's songs has a remotely similar effect. You don't care much for Arooh Lemeen or Hagartak it seems; to me, they are jewels and they touch me in unbelievable ways.
Does this means I live only in the "all Om Kulthoum" circle? Of course not. But what speaks to me outside this circle is Abd El Mottaleb in Basa'ab A'la Rohi and Shofti Habeeby; Abd El Wahab in Gafnoho and Ellee Yehebb El Gamal; Farid in Awwel Hamsa and Habeeb El Omr; Asmahan in Asqiniha and Hal Tayyama-l-Banu.
To give an example of my "taste" and how it's affected by the "atmosphere": although Asmahan did a far greater job than Ibrahim Hammouda in Layta Lel Barraqi, the atmospher of the live performance of Hammouda appeals to me a lot. I went crazy the other day when I saw the atmosphere in which Sheikh Omran was singing Holm; just seeing him swaying while singing speaks to me more than someone singing an old dawr in a studio, even if Sheikh Omran could remember only a few words of the song :-)
Finally, it's not a joke and in no way meant to offend anyone, probably my preference is influenced by the fact that I grew up in a family that drinks (alcohol) while listening to Om Kulthoum, and I continue the tradition in the States.
So, hope this explains my simple and straightforward taste for music: it's about what speaks to me, and no one does that better than Om Kulthoum. And I wouldn't call this fanaticism :-)

Best regards,
Luay

أبو علاء
28-03-2006, 17:10
My dear Luay, I was mostly teasing you in my last post. I have no intention to insist on converting you to my "religion" at any cost (in fact, I'm not good at all at convincing people and converting them), especially that yours does appeal to me as much. By the way, I used to drink (alcohool) with a restricted circle of friends while listening to Salih 'abdi-l-hay, Sayyid As-safti and Mahmud Mursi... Anyway, it would be difficult to dig out a recording of one of those singing a dawr amongst torrents of applauses and exlamations. Even Frédéric Lagrange would not be of great help there, would he? Instead, owving to the same Lagrange we're at least starting to get dawr recordings of the beginning of the previous century in decent qualtiy. One last point, when I spoke of Zakariya's continuing a tradition started by Sayyid Darwish, I didn't meant all Zakariya's music nor all Sayyid Darwish. My remark was specific to a particular genre, the one taken over by shaykh 'imam at a later state. And, speaking of Sayyid Darwish, I'll upload soon the last waslah of muwashahs I recorded from the Israeli radio ensemble. It happens to be an all Sayyid Darwish waslahs and I would like you to listen to it so that you see his music is not a single faceted one.

luay
28-03-2006, 17:26
Hi Abu A'laa,
I know you were teasing, and despite the *unintentional* "seriousness" in my tone, I was explaining my really simple taste in music, which is immensely influenced by the atmosphere of the recording. While talking to Najib the other day, I actually told him that I liked a lot Dayyaa'te Mustaa'bal Hayati as sung by Zakariya (yes, Zakariya), and thinking about it, the atmosphere of the recording is beautiful. As I wrote in another post, I've learned a lot from you, and still learn, and this is not just a courtesy statement, nor is it me trying to be humble: I simply cannot analyze music as deep as you do (maqam's, etc.). Both of us rely on our "ears", rather than on any musical education, but you've educated your ear, so to speak, much more. I also admit that, given the richness of Arabic music, particularly at the end of the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th, I have a very narrow interest which includes a handful of singers and composers. On the other hand, you have a much broader interest, and hence in a better position to judge music. Further, growing up in Israel, I hardly had access to anything before the 40's (whatever older recordings I heard of Om Kulthoum were from tapes that my brother got me from a trip he took to Egypt --- I've never been to any Arab country). This forum and others are giving the opportunity to "make up" for that, and in a few years, I'm sure I'll have a broader interest and a more respected collection of recordings.
However, I swear and promise that I won't join Najib in saying Zakariya's Ahl El Hawa is better than OK's, which he keeps insisting on despite you telling him the comparsion is irrelevant :-)
Finally, our religions are similar, so converting back and forth between them is fine :-)

Yours,
Luay