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مشاهدة جميع الاصدارات : Zakaria - Better recordings



Najib
28-03-2006, 17:15
Ok, these are straight from a good cassette that my wonderful friend Hakem got me from Cairo a long time ago.

I will put a comment later on Misiro 3aklak.

Thanks Hakem

Najib
28-03-2006, 17:27
And a special comment about Dawr Missirou 3aklak that I’ve just posted.

You know when they show you on TV someone jumping into a ring that is on fire, nothing happens to him, and then they say: “Please Don’t Try This at Home”.

Well this is what I feel when I listen to Zakaria at minute 3’41” he goes from Saba to Rast on Neva (Makam Yeka), and then goes back to Saba asif nothing happened at all!

I’ve yet to hear anything as daring as this.

I remember, few years ago, listening to this for the first time while driving, and I had to stop the car when he got to this point.

fredlag@noos.fr
28-03-2006, 17:49
you got me laughing for 10 minutes straight. Yes, don't try this at home...

theoudman
28-03-2006, 18:14
HA HA HA dangerous move. I love it!

Najib
29-03-2006, 13:54
I was talking to Mohsen on the phone this morning, and he was telling me that he tried, singing, to go back from that Rast to Sabah as the Sheikh does it. He tried it many times to no avail.

For me I had to rewind that tape many many times, just to understand - Maqam wise - what on earth he was doing.

The problem is that there are a lot of singers who are very clever with maqam acrobatics. I mean if you come from "Ssa3eed" of Egypt, surely the sikah balady is in your genes, especially for those who sing the mawwal.

However I've never heard a similar difficult and quick transposition done rhythmically in a "Hank we Rank" before! It maybe due to my small collection anyway.

This was a good pointer to Sheikh Zakaria the performer not just the composer. Something that is sometimes hidden from the collective memory of people due to the prolific output of this great musician.

3amr
29-03-2006, 14:54
I'm in no position to try to sing anything considering I'm perpetually off key (in addition to having a baritone voice which dies after five seconds of arabic singing).

I can however say that the same recording was posted on the zeryab forum, but much much faster. This speed however is more in keeping with sheikh zakariyyas performing style, not to mention that the other one made sheikh zako sound like he was thirteen again.

theoudman
29-03-2006, 16:49
Just to add a little something to this conversation - right here is a huge example of the difference between Zakariya Ahmad and Oum Kalthoum (from your earlier argument)
As great as she was, Oum Kalthoum would never be able to pull off a move like that.
Actually most singers wouldnt be able to (and they would get lost :) )unless they were great musicians as well.

luay
29-03-2006, 16:58
What are you talking about guys? I've just tried it and did it better than the Sheikh himself..
Just kidding, Najib :-)
It's beautiful and amazing, indeed.
However, back to the defensive position :-) Victor: unless we've heard every single performance of Om Kulthoum, I doubt we can say she "would NEVER be able to do it".
It might be the case, but from what I've heard from the lady over about 25 years, using NEVER with Om Kulthoum is risky :-)

Luay

theoudman
30-03-2006, 15:36
On the subject of Zakariya, I know I have a recording of him singing a part of howwa sahih, does anyone know if a full recording exists?
If anyone has it, can you post?

Hattouma
30-03-2006, 18:16
i think Laila Mourad was trying hard to cope with the Sheikh in this WONDERFUL DAWR.. :)
will try to upload it too..
good you uploaded the dawrs with the correct speed and quality , i have the tape digitized and never had the chance to upload it . the tape (sono caire / sout elqahera )and it has a third dawr as well (ismu ala lesany :) . it is the only of 2 available tapes of zakaria ahmad now in the cairo market , the other one has ""dayat mustaqbal hayaty "".

Najib
30-03-2006, 18:20
I have dayya3ti on a CD together with Ilhabib Lil Hagri Mayel very good quality.

Hattouma
30-03-2006, 18:25
I have dayya3ti on a CD together with Ilhabib Lil Hagri Mayel very good quality.

yes sono-caire published it on cd as well ...but dropped Abbas''s name :( (unlike the tape ) so i am sure there some now who think elhabib lelhagr mayel is performed by Zakaria as well !!
can you believe there is no (other)commercial recording available for Abbas !! :(

Najib
30-03-2006, 18:37
You're right it is a stupid wrong CD dump of the same correct cassette!

Just show how meticulous the Sono Cairo people are.

I mean we've got hundreds of CDs of Umm Kulthum, but do we know where the hell she performed them? Not really!

Hattouma
30-03-2006, 20:09
the tape for example of Rabaa aladawia film songs do not even have the composer/writer
info ..
and as for the live recordings the whole point is missed ..the live perofrmance is cut and edited ..etc this was done in the past i think to fit it into one ""2 sided LP"" with a total of time maximum 44 mins (note 2 LP's was asking too much ) ..then they transfered the same ""file"" to ""2 side tape"" when the age of tape came ..then transfered the same ""file ""to the CD !!!! (in the cd age ...when the cd can take up to 80 mins !) sometimes we could use this for having 2 songs on one cd ofcourse ..
and this is for the biggest star ever Oum kalthoum ..(not for Abbas ir Saleh ...etc)
it is so irritating to expereince the ""gap"" between 2 sides even in the cd !
oh Najib ..please don''t start me ..

أبو علاء
30-03-2006, 20:51
Here you're: Misir 'aqlak interpreted with Layla Murad.

fredlag@noos.fr
30-03-2006, 22:40
I love this misir 3aqlak with Leila Murad ! Delicious !
I guess everybody knows this dor by heart and already has a recording, but just in case,

Baidaphon

layla murad : dor/ in kan fu'adi

أبو علاء
30-03-2006, 22:53
Oh yes, we do have it. But, probably not in such a good quality (I haven't listened yet). Thanks, Fred.

Najib
30-03-2006, 23:05
Excuse my ignorance, but I need more info on this. And this is the first time I hear it.

So here are my questions:

1st I presume this is a Zakaria Ahmad composition?
and do I hear him with the methhabgyyah? (a la Umm Kulthum recordings?)

Also there is a mawwal in the middle? Is that a Zakariya invention or there were similar forms before?

On a more cheerful note is this the sexiest Ahat in the history of Dawrs or what? :-)

fredlag@noos.fr
30-03-2006, 23:44
Yes, it is a Zakariyya Ahmad composition, I don't know the precise date but will enquire, the original record is somewhere in my closet, under a pile of socks, and the label should give some idea. Like 1936-8 ish or so.
It's hardly a dor anymore, with a section lahn mursal, the ahaat are indeed splendid, and, why not, sexy. And he is among the mazhabgeyya. One of the nicest things Layla Murad ever did.

Najib
31-03-2006, 11:07
thanks ya seedi you are the one who is splendid.

I loved her singing in this Dawr. Allah yerhamha.

jenni
07-08-2012, 14:29
Excuse my ignorance, but I need more info on this. And this is the first time I hear it.

So here are my questions:

1st I presume this is a Zakaria Ahmad composition?
and do I hear him with the methhabgyyah? (a la Umm Kulthum recordings?)

Also there is a mawwal in the middle? Is that a Zakariya invention or there were similar forms before?

On a more cheerful note is this the sexiest Ahat in the history of Dawrs or what? :-)


To be honest the first time I listened to the ahat I found it bizarre... but then I read the comments, and figured that if the experts are calling it "sexy" then I must be missing something profound ;)
Now I can't stop listening to it!! I haven't listened to much Layla Murad (the only thing I really knew of hers' before was "Hayranah Leh"), but she really does have a lovely voice/color.

Adwar are partially improvised, no? This doesn't sound at all improvised to me....?

أبو علاء
08-08-2012, 00:49
Here's what Fred wrote:


Yes, it is a Zakariyya Ahmad composition, I don't know the precise date but will enquire, the original record is somewhere in my closet, under a pile of socks, and the label should give some idea. Like 1936-8 ish or so.
It's hardly a dor anymore, with a section lahn mursals...

In its original conception, the dawr was fundamentally based on improvisation, the composition consisting mainly of a sort of outline where nothing is fixed in much
details, except for the introductory section i.e the madhhab (check the Manyalawi booklet). But this was no longer the case, at least since the mid-twenties, if not earlier, as soon as the record companies started hiring composers and lyricists to produce pieces on demand that were to be exclusively performed by a single performer who would record them for their exclusive benefit making them their own property. This could be noted in many pieces specifically composed by Dawud Husni and Ibrahim Al-qabbani and recorded by Sayyid As-safti. But, it is all the more noticeable in the 'adwar Dawud Husni and Zakariya 'ahmad composed for 'um kalthum in the late twenties-early thirties. This one came even later, and it comes as a sort of post mortem as the dawr as a classical genre was practically dead and buried.

jenni
08-08-2012, 18:49
Here's what Fred wrote:



In its original conception, the dawr was fundamentally based on improvisation, the composition consisting mainly of a sort of outline where nothing is fixed in much
details, except for the introductory section i.e the madhhab (check the Manyalawi booklet). But this was no longer the case, at least since the mid-twenties, if not earlier, as soon as the record companies started hiring composers and lyricists to produce pieces on demand that were to be exclusively performed by a single performer who would record them for their exclusive benefit making them their own property. This could be noted in many pieces specifically composed by Dawud Husni and Ibrahim Al-qabbani and recorded by Sayyid As-safti. But, it is all the more noticeable in the 'adwar Dawud Husni and Zakariya 'ahmad composed for 'um kalthum in the late twenties-early thirties. This one came even later, and it comes as a sort of post mortem as the dawr as a classical genre was practically dead and buried.


Sorry for my redundancy as i do remember reading about this subject in the booklet and also discussing it on other posts sometimes in great detail...this seems to be a perpetual point of confusion for me, and i think it is mostly to do with the fact that I have virtually no knowledge of the adwar which preceeded this and I have not the ears yet to understand which parts of the piece are fixed (with the exception of the mazhabjiyya parts) and which are improvised, and how this was all communicated from the composer to the singer beforehand. i will read the manyalawi booklet again :)

ameer
19-11-2012, 15:51
And a special comment about Dawr Missirou 3aklak that I’ve just posted.

You know when they show you on TV someone jumping into a ring that is on fire, nothing happens to him, and then they say: “Please Don’t Try This at Home”.

Well this is what I feel when I listen to Zakaria at minute 3’41” he goes from Saba to Rast on Neva (Makam Yeka), and then goes back to Saba asif nothing happened at all!

I’ve yet to hear anything as daring as this.

I remember, few years ago, listening to this for the first time while driving, and I had to stop the car when he got to this point.

This deserves further highlighting because he doesn't take the common route from saba to rast seen for example in the end of the first verse in Wadi El Safi's Ya Sakhrat El Mina, which is just to descend from the tonic to the fourth. Instead, he jumps up to the seventh and descends from there into rast on G. The guy has skills.