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الموضوع: أجمل =ياظالمني = التي طلبها ابو علاء كاملة وسيدة الغناء

  1. #1
    alshame Guest

    إفتراضي أجمل =ياظالمني = التي طلبها ابو علاء كاملة وسيدة الغناء

    الأخ لؤي كان قد رفع هذا التسجيل مشكورا ولكنه كما قال لي أخي ابو علاء أنه منقوص وبجودة صوت وسط لأنني لم أحمل إلا الجزء الأول فقط لأعرف الحفلة واخذ ساعة ونصف معي لبطء النت عندنا ونزولا عند طلب العزيز ابو علاء ها انا ذا أرفعها كاملة تماما لأن هذه الحفلة تحملت الكثير من الغش والنقص عند الكثير من المصادر وخصوصا الجزء القصير بين تقسيمتي القانون والعود فهو منقوص عند أغلب الأحيان وموصول التقسيمتين مع بعض والحفلة هي من حفلها الساهر الزاهر الذي اقيم في صالة مدرسة اللاييك بدمشق مساء يوم 15سبتمبر 1955 في الفاصل الأخير بعد قصيدتي ذكريات وولد الهدى وطبعا الملف مقسم إلى اجزاء راعيت فيها إعادة جزء بسيط والعودة الى الخلف كي يتسنى لكم وصلها وتجميعها بسهوله وليسعفنا من لديه خطوط نت جيدة بتجميعها ورفعها بملف واحد للشباب مشكورا والتسجيل نظيف وتعتبر هذه الوصلة من أجمل بل يعتبرها الكثير من السميعة هي اجمل ياظالمني على الإطلاق والست مبسوطة جدا ومتسلطنة كما يقول الإخوة في مصر فأترككم معها وأرجو ان تنال إعجابكم وشكرا لكم
    آخر تعديل بواسطة أبو علاء ، 10-09-2006 الساعة 11:24

  2. #2
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
    المشاركات
    18

    إفتراضي

    زاد اللّه في زادك يا محمود وعمر بيتك وحفظ مالك وعيالك.
    ليلتنا فل كما يقول الإخوة المصريّون ؛ لا تهتمّ لأمر تجميع الملفّ وإعادة رفعه فسأتولّى ذلك، وأرجو أن يسامحني فريديريك إذ لم يتسنّ لي إلى الآن سماع منيره والتّعليق على القصيدتين فأنا منهمك في إعداد بعض الموادّ لموضوع خاصّ بشهر رمضان وقد بات على الأبواب.
    أبو علاء

  3. #3
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
    المشاركات
    18

    إفتراضي

    إليكم التّسجيل الكامل بعد تجميع الملفّات، ومدّته ساعة وسبع دقائق، وهو ما لم تبلغه لا نسخة موقع سواري الّتي جلبها لؤي ولا النّسخة الّتي اعتادت بثّها إذاعة إسرائيل (وربّما الإذاعة التّونسيّة).
    مرّة أخرى ألف شكر لأخينا محمود وأرجو أن يسامحنا على ما تكبّد من مشقّة في رفع هذه الملفّات عبر وصلة بطيئة، وقد جرّبت مثل تلك المعاناة في الصّائفة الماضية.

    This is the full recording of Ya dhalimni as performed in a concert given in Damascus on the 15th of September 1955, courtesy of our friend Mahmoud Shami. Many of us (Luay, Najib and myself) think it is the best version ever recroded of this song
    الملفات المرفقة الملفات المرفقة
    آخر تعديل بواسطة أبو علاء ، 10-09-2006 الساعة 19:44
    أبو علاء

  4. #4
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Oct 2005
    المشاركات
    4

    إفتراضي

    Thank you, Mahmoud, for posting this wonderful version, and thank you Abu A'laa for combining all parts into one piece.
    One comment (for the time being) though: Mahmoud mentioned that the recording was in September and not December (I know these details are not among your strengths, Abu A'laa, so to speak :-)

    Thanks again. I'll come back with my comments on this one, as well as on Ataa'ajjalu-l-O'mra and Salou Kouos Attela.

    Best regards,
    Luay

  5. #5
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
    المشاركات
    18

    إفتراضي

    Oops!
    Sorry, this is age!
    Thank you for the correction. filenames modified accordingly.
    أبو علاء

  6. #6
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Oct 2005
    المشاركات
    4

    إفتراضي

    The mistake is also in the English text of your post..
    I swear I never claim to be a perfectionist, and sincere apologies for being a pain in the neck :-)

    Thanks Abu A'laa.
    Luay

  7. #7
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
    المشاركات
    18

    إفتراضي

    You're definitely not. Corrected.
    Now, back to serious things. I've been listening to this recording for last hour or so and apart from the shear pleasure such exercice inevitably brings to anyone who loves this kind of music, it gave raise to the following thoughts.
    Let me start by recalling what I've often said or wrote about this song of 'um kalthum's or, to be more precise, this composition of Sunbati along with a few others in the same vein and from the same period. You might remember, my dear Luay, I wrote that I don't like them much and I never cared much to listen to them.
    My judgement about the initial composition has not changed. And here's the point. All the magics of this performance is in the performance itself.
    Whoever have read Fred's thesis on the music of the Nahdha era or carefully followed his interventions in this forum will have understood that the prime characteristic of the compositions of that period ('adwar, qasa'id, let alone mawawil) was that they mainly consisted in a primary canvass that remained open to every sort of additions, modulations, variations...etc so that it would be simply out of place to make a clear distinction between the respective roles of the composer and the singer and, would the intellectual property concept have existed in the nineteenth century, it would have been the trickiest thing to try and determine the "ownership" of El-bulbul gani-w-qalli or 'araka 'asiya-d-dam'i.
    Fred also thoroughly analyzes the aesthetic decisive shift starting in the twenties-thirties towards the modern scenery where the new key concept is that of the song that is henceforth defined as a finished product whereby the roles are clearly defined and distributed between the lyricist, the composer, the singer and the musician.
    My point is that 'um kalthum will have been the last representative of the nahdha aesthetics or let us say that such live performances of her as this one represented the ultimate remainders of that aesthetics. In this interpretation of Ya dhalimni, mainly herself, but also Qasabgi, 'abdu Salih and the whole takht as well, were the ones who made the whole job and totally tranformed this ordinary composition to make out of it one of the most outstanding performances of the Arab classical music in the second half of the twentieth century.
    I will also add that the real climax of this performance is not the last section with the solos, but the first one and to be more precise the rast part ("suburti snin 'ala saddak...)
    آخر تعديل بواسطة أبو علاء ، 10-09-2006 الساعة 20:18
    أبو علاء

  8. #8
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Oct 2005
    المشاركات
    4

    إفتراضي

    Hi Abu A'laa,
    We have many agreements here, and slight disagreement. There is no point in talking about the disagreement, since it's purely a matter of taste: I like Ya Dhalimni a lot (in this class of songs, I also put Arooh Lemeen, which I LOVE). Before I get to this very version, I'd like to make a point about Ya Dhalimni and it's "sisters" ("Ya Dhalimni Wa Akhawateha"... in the same vein like "Kana Wa Akhawateha" in Arabic grammar). The point is this song shows where Sunbati was composing more in line with what the audience wanted to hear, as opposed to Qassabji, who was composing "hard" stuff, with complex musical structures. The latter are appreciated by those who understand music and music theory more, whereas the former have catchy musical phrases that stick in the person's mind. In short, Sunbati made sure his songs contain these catchy phrases. But to me Ya Dhalimni has parts that are simply beyond "catchy phrases"; for example, the short music immediately after "Yeban Eddama' Fe-A'nayya" (it's at minute 43 and 40 seconds in the mp3 file you uploaded).

    I know what you like of Sunbati's (Halllet Layali-l-Amar, Ya Toul A'dhabi, etc.). I do think these ones have stuff that Ya Dhalimni doesn't ("Wu Lamma Shoofak Yerooh Menne-l-Kalam Wansah" is unparalleled in any other song, for example). But again, where my difference comes is that I still like Ya Dhalimni a lot (and again, this is just a matter of taste, so I don't think there are points to make here). BTW I do completely agree with you that the climax of this version is the part of "Suburt Sneen" is the best, followed by the part of "Atawea'". The part of Haketlak is great because of the taqaseem.

    I also completely agree that Om Kulthoum's performance at this night made a huge difference in the song. And here's where I also see your point about the song: Gaddedte Hobbak Leh, for example, sounds great whether Om Kulthoum improvises or not (actually she hardly does in the version available in the market); on the other hand, a song like Ya Dhalmini requires Om Kulthoum's "intervention" to take it to that "league" of songs. But this is what puts Om Kulthoum in a league of her own, in my view.

    Finally, and before I get to some specific minutes of the song, I'd like to reiterate a point I had made a few times earlier, and I recall Abu A'laa not completely agreeing with: we've hardly heard any ordinary performance from Om Kulthoum outside Egypt so far!!! Evidence is accumulating that Om Kulthoum gave her best performances outside Egypt.

    Specifics, and questions about maqams, answers to which would be extremely appreciated (All times herein refer to the mp3 file you uploaded):
    minute 18, 5 seconds: the beautiful stuff in Suburt Sneen starts
    minute 22, 15 seconds: she makes some nice shift in the word "youm"; is this a maqam
    change?
    minute 22, 52 seconds: one of those trademark Om Kulthoum killers, where she goes
    high on the "youm" and goes back to Suburt Sneen (one of my favorites).
    minute 26, 15 seconds: the mastery of Om Kulthoum and her complete control over her
    voice are demonstrated in the way she plays with A'shan!! (Reminds me of other
    intentional "Bahhat" she used to make; examples in El Awwela Fel-gharam,
    A'wwedt E'iny,...)
    minute 27, 15 seconds: one of the high points of her repetition of "A'shan Taa'tef A'layya
    youm".
    minute 28, 24 seconds: in about one minute only, she hits another climax in the same
    sentence. Intense couple of minutes.
    minute 29, 30 seconds: she gets "high" agian within a minute!!!! I have no idea what
    mood she was in at this night.
    minute 30, 15 seconds: pleasing the audience surpasses all limits, in my opinion.
    minute 30, 42 seconds (until minute 31, 30 seconds): another one of my most favorite
    parts. The melody she makes is sad yet extremely moving in this part (what is this
    maqam?)
    minute 38, 24 seonds: the beautiful stuff in Atawea' starts. Is she switching maqam at minute 39 and 35 seconds? And from this point on, for about two minutes, it's sheer
    beauty.
    Both taqaseem at the end are super beautiful, but I always like what Qassabji does more (I'm biased :-)

    The way she says "Ya Dhalimni" for the first time when she's finishing the last part (one hour and about 5 minutes) is sensational, and I think it's a perfect way to end such a night. BTW I think this recording is missing one part: in the version I uploaded from sawari, she has to repeat the part of "Weteghdab Lamma Oullak.." at the end, given the audience applause.

    Time to finish this long post now.
    Luay
    آخر تعديل بواسطة luay ، 11-09-2006 الساعة 00:07

  9. #9
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Jul 2005
    الإقامة
    London
    المشاركات
    94

    إفتراضي الف شكر

    بعد تحليل إبي علاء وحاتم و لؤي ليس لي سوى السكوت والأستمتاع

    أخي محمود الف شكر والله يطوّل عمرك ويرزقك

  10. #10
    oudman Guest

    إفتراضي

    أضم صوتي لنجيب لأقول لكم ألف شكر على هذه التحفه التي كنا نسمعها ليل نهار ولا نمل ....ارجعتمونا للعصر الذهبي...جازاكم الله خيرا

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