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الموضوع: لسّه فاكر : حفلة الأزبكيّه 2 فبراير 1961

  1. #1
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
    المشاركات
    18

    إفتراضي لسّه فاكر : حفلة الأزبكيّه 2 فبراير 1961

    وهو تسجيل آخر من تسجيلات إذاعة الأغاني القاهريّة ؛ وأذكر أنّ محمود كان قد رفع تسجيلا لحفلة أخرى كانت في شهر فبراير 1962، وأترك الحكم للؤي وصبحي ومن معهم، فليس هذا اللّحن من الألحان الّتي تهمّني.

    The name of the song and date of the concert are given in the file title
    الملفات المرفقة الملفات المرفقة
    أبو علاء

  2. #2
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Mar 2006
    الإقامة
    Paris, France
    المشاركات
    1

    إفتراضي

    من كرهك للجهاركاه
    حتما، سأتجنب رفع تسجيل أبي حجاج لدور الفؤاد أمره عجيب حفاظا على سلامة ودانك

  3. #3
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
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    18

    إفتراضي

    أعترف أنّ أقلّ ما يقال إنّي لست مولعا بالجهاركاه، ولكن هل يجوز لك رجمي بعد أن "اعترفتَ" بأنّك لا تحبّ السّنباطي وألحانه طرّا ؟ أمّا فؤادي أمره عجيب فقد سبقت إلى رفعه منذ زمن، وهو راست كردان وليس جهاركاه.
    أبو علاء

  4. #4
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Mar 2006
    الإقامة
    Paris, France
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    1

    إفتراضي

    oups, that's right. But if the original record seems better than mine, the sound file is bad. I will have to change that.
    Ok, what can I falsely threaten to withhold so that you can admit being interested in gerka ?

    ummm...

    Hilmi in "shuf hali ya hatek hali" ?
    Hilmi in "El hobb sabahni 3adam" ?
    Safti in "Bed3 el-habibi kollo yetreb" ?

  5. #5
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
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    18

    إفتراضي

    Well, Fred, you know there are exceptions to every rule. Bid'i-l-habib I have and like enough, as well as ya badri timmi-l-gibin. By the way, you didn't tell me how you appreciated Fashni's malika-l-mulk
    أبو علاء

  6. #6
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Oct 2005
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    4

    إفتراضي

    Thank you Abu A'laa.
    I too, don't consider this song one of my favorites. I like the part of Yama Helyetlak Ahat Albi.
    Your comment about Fred not liking Sunbati and his compositions: was that a joke or is it really that Fred doesn't like Sunbati's compositions???????? This would be an interesting discussion/debate :-) I know liking or disliking something is not open for debate, since it's a personal matter, but I'd be interested in hearing why someone wouldn't like Sunbati's compositions (Gaddedte Hobbak Leh, Gholobt Asaleh, Hallet Layali-l-Amar, Ya Toul A'dhabi, Yalli Kan Yeshgeek Aneeni,...).

    Thanks again.
    Luay

  7. #7
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Mar 2006
    الإقامة
    Paris, France
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    1

    إفتراضي

    @ Lu'ay : well, i'm not a huge fan of Sunbati, but there are songs by Sunbati that I love.
    Let's try developping : To me, Sunbati is a step further than Zakariyya in breaking with the takht aesthetics. his sentences are almost never as occidentalized as Qasabgi's, but Sunbati *needs* an orchestra for his music. So this is the first reason. The second is that he is capable of the best and the worst, the worst being for me his tendency to heaviness, to fakhama rannana. Sunbati can be boring. I discovered "Nahg al-Burda" was a great song when I heard this version UK extemporises on "hatta balaghta sama'an". But even in this amazing version, the beginning is boring, which is a shame considering the excellence of Shawqi's mu3arada of Busiri. To think he couldn't imagine a good musical sentence for "ya na3es al-tarfi la dhuqta l-hawa abadan / ashrata mudnaka fi hifzi l-hawa fa-nami", which is in my opinion a verse absolutely as good as any medieval one by the fu7ul al-shu3ara' , a pure jewel, well it enrages me, because let's face it, who remembers the musical sentence ? He botched the job, the way I feel it. Same applies to "araka 3asiyya d-dam3", the 64 version is ridiculous compared with Saleh 4abd al-Hayy's, for instance, a really baaaaaaaaad job. But he can be a genius at times : Ya zalemni is amazing, hallet layali l-qamar, and even the instrumental opening of el-qalb ye3shaq is a jewel of pop music. What I don't like is the conceited, bombastic, pretentious Sunbati. But I really adore some of his work.

    @ Abu Ala' :
    I9 loved it, but when hearing it felt it was more gaharkah than 3agam. Gotta listen to it again to make up my mind.
    آخر تعديل بواسطة fredlag@noos.fr ، 19-11-2006 الساعة 21:47

  8. #8
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Oct 2005
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    4

    إفتراضي

    Thanks Fred for your elaboration. Again, liking and disliking music (or anything else for that matter) stem from a personal taste, so thanks for discussing your views why like/dislike
    Sunbati's music. In a video clip that Najib posted (Sunbati's interview in the Kuwaiti TV), he gets asked about the religious songs Nahj-el-Borda, Wulida-l-Huda,... He says that to him these are like the pyramids! This means he was very proud of them. I personally love his work in the religious (despite my views about religion) and patriotic (despite similar views about nationalism) songs. But in the "patriotic songs" category, I don't mean the ones for Nasser (Ya Gamal Ya Mthal-el-Wattaneyya, and all that), but rather the poems such as Waqafa-l-Khalqu, Be-Abee Wa Rohee (this is one of my most favorite), Misru-Llatee Fee Khatery,...

    As for Araka A'seyya-Ddama'e, I agree the one from the 20's is much nicer (you wrote Saleh Abdel-Hayy; did you mean A'bdo-l-Hamuli?). I wish we could hear Zakariyya's version, but somehow, Zakariyya and classical poems don't mix well in my mind :-)
    If I'm not mistaken, I once read Abu A'laa's comment about Athulathiyya-l-Muqqaddasa. It definitely wasn't a positive comment :-) I like this one, though. Do you find it boring?

    I swear that I'm not going to say the following for the sake of disagreeing, but the two lines I like the most from Nahj-el-borda (the music, that is) are: Ya Naa'esa-Ttarfe and Gobta-Ssamawate Aw Ma Fawqahonna... But again, I might be liking Om Kulthoum's "version" (which we now know is the one from Damascus in 1955).

    Finally, if you were asked to rank the following composers from top to bottom, twice, once based on what you like and once based on the quality of their music (the two don't have to be the same; right), how would you rank them: Farid El Atrash, Qassabji, Sunbati, Wahab, and Zakariyya (I ordered them alphabetically, so that my writing doesn't reflect my biases :-) ?

    Thanks again.
    Luay
    آخر تعديل بواسطة luay ، 19-11-2006 الساعة 22:09

  9. #9
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
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    البلاد المنخفضة.....Netherlands
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    8

    إفتراضي

    إقتباس المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة fredlag@noos.fr
    من كرهك للجهاركاه
    حتما، سأتجنب رفع تسجيل أبي حجاج لدور الفؤاد أمره عجيب حفاظا على سلامة ودانك
    Fred ..mind Abu Alaa's taste ,it is the extreme here ! Egyptians seems to me cannot live without gerkaa

  10. #10
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
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    18

    إفتراضي

    If I'm not mistaken, I once read Abu A'laa's comment about Athulathiyya-l-Muqqaddasa. It definitely wasn't a positive comment :-)


    You're right, Luay, I don't like Ath-thulatiya and I think it's precisley one of those pompous things Fred is talking of. Actually, such pompousness resides here in that sort of "special effects" introduced by Sunbati himself or his arranger (in my opinion his last great work for 'um kalthum was 'aqbala-l-layl). I can't agree with Fred's general statement, of course. But, I have my own view on Sunbati.
    To me, his musical genius is beyond questioning. He left to us such a huge number of masterpieces, not only amongst 'um kalthum's repertory, but in so many others: Salih 'abdi-l-hay, Muhammad 'abdi-l-muttalib, Fathiya 'ahmad, Nagat 'ali, 'asmahan, Layla Murad, Warda, Huda Sultan...etc. I'm even tempted to add that he was almost unique in offering good compositions to so many singers of various "classes" despite his "full time" work with 'um kalthum. Qasabgi with his enigma of "'um kalthum complex" fell far short from such extensive high quality presence in the artistic scene. Zakariya, instead, could easily be credited with comparable credentials. But, he came to the scene much earlier than both Sunbati and Qasabgi and he was left totally "free" from any standing commitment for the last fifteen years of his life or so following his dispute with 'um kalthum...
    Now, "the problem" with Sunbati, in my view, was the very key to his success. He stood midway between two extremes: that of the shear artist with both its manifestations - the mental one examplified by Qasabgi and the sentimental one illustrated by Zakariya - and the one of the merchant personified by 'abdi-l-wahab. Sunbati, was a good synthesis (a successfull one on both sides) of those two socio-cultural characters and the musical conception offered by their representatives. This should explain the lightheartedness with which he hastily "buried" such compositions as 'ata'aggalu-l-'umr, kayfa marrat 'ala hawaki-l-qulubu or fakir... A remarkable characteistic distinguished him among all the composers (and some lyricists) who accompanied 'um kalthum during her career - his total detachment (remember, Luay, that remark of yours concerning his deliberate choice not to assist to the concerts where his songs were performed!). This explains in my view his alternating pieces of genius such as the ones we enumerated with others, which are barely anything more well crafted mainstream music produces like the one here and so many others I mentioned in the past. His combining of genuine talent with pragmatism is besides the only convincing explanation I can think of to understand the peculiar economy of his musical production and that typical tendancy he had to create melodic patterns or canvasses and exploit them to the fullest extent possible through several replicas for each of such patterns. Just think of that typical Sunbati combination kurd ---- rast ---- gaharkah reproduced ad nauseam through ya dhalimni, hagartak, ya nasisni, 'araka 'asiya-d-dam'i, thawratu-sh-shakk... (his mania of what the French call du réchauffé didn't leave him in the last years of his life as shown through 'aqbala-l-layl, min 'agli 'aynayk, 'ashwaq, wa-ltaqayna, la taqulli ya habibi dha'a hubbi min yadi...)

    أبو علاء

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