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الموضوع: Ibrahim Sahlun 3/4 : Taqsim bayyati / Taqsim huzam (3ada)

  1. #1
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Mar 2006
    الإقامة
    Paris, France
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    1

    إفتراضي Ibrahim Sahlun 3/4 : Taqsim bayyati / Taqsim huzam (3ada)

    In spite of the obvious lack of reaction to the last taqsim saba bamb, these are two more taqsim-s by Ibrahim Sahlun.
    First is bayyati, with some shuri at the end of it, non-metric ("3ada", as they said in the early 20th century, or "mursal" as we would more conventionnaly put it)
    Second side is huzam ("sikah" on the sticker, for "huzam" was seldom used as a denomination), with traces of musta3ar at times (5:18, 5:52, 5:55 among others). Pizzicato around 6:00, proving that the introduction of this (perhaps) Paganini-inspired technique is previous to Sami al-Shawwa.

    Both improvisations are fine, long, extremely "in the mood" of the khedivial music school, with no attempts at trying out of the limits. Notice how the art of improvisation does not encourage at this stage any escapade out of the initial maqam. The whole scale is explored, there are some slight colorings at times (for example, on the second side, at 4:59, I hear an allusion to the scale of 3iraq instead of the scale of huzam), but the musician never tries to prove his virtuosity by the means of surfing from a maqam to another ; on the contrary, he presses everything there is to press in the same color...

    Odeon 31131-31133 (I wonder what 31132 could have been...)
    a very early record according to the number (circa 1908) but the technical quality is excellent.
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  2. #2
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Jul 2005
    الإقامة
    London
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    94

    إفتراضي Hello

    In this taqsim, Sahlun's style is so Ottoman. Extracting everything possible between the two limits of a jins. Quick sneeky gawab to qarar salalim, etc...

    In the first taqsim, if you didn't say it was a violin, in some places, I would think it's a Kementcheh playing (Lyra), with a bow style reminding me so much of the teksims of Tanburi Cemil.

    What a wonderful artist!

  3. #3
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
    المشاركات
    18

    إفتراضي

    إقتباس المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة fredlag@noos.fr
    In spite of the obvious lack of reaction to the last taqsim saba bamb, these are two more taqsim-s by Ibrahim Sahlun.
    I downloaded the files uploaded recently in this section and listened to all of them. However, I'm a bit reluctant to commenting on this kind of recording given my lack of instrumental skills that, I feel, are needed if one is to come out with a meaningful contribution. Of course, this doesn't prevent me from having my own appreciation of such pieces and, basically, liking them or not. But, the problem comes when trying to conceptualise such appreciations.
    This said, apart from his sticking to the main maqam and exploring it at length and the peculiar sound of the kaman as mentioned by Najib, it seems to me that Sahlun's playing in these two taqsims is somehow frenetic. It sounds as though he uses short bow-strokes. Does this make sense?
    أبو علاء

  4. #4
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Jul 2005
    الإقامة
    London
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    إفتراضي Yes

    It makes perfect sense.

    Where are you 3amr? This is a post on a plate for 3amr to contribute!

  5. #5
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Mar 2006
    الإقامة
    California
    المشاركات
    7

    إفتراضي ok

    I will try to contribute,

    as for the pizzicato, as far as I can hear, this is right hand pizzicato (the bow hand that is), which was there before Paganini, what paganini developed was left hand pizzicato (the same hand stopping the strings and plucking them at the same time).

    As for describing his playing, I agree fully with Abu Ala2 about the use of the word "frenetic". The bowing is sometimes very rapid, and reminds me of Tanburi Cemil (although I don't listen to him that frequently), and the interesting thing is, on held notes, I can't figure out if it's just some sort of vibrato, but he does sound like he's bowing back and forth, which is a technique usually used on the kemence and djoze. Another note on technique (and I hope these observations are discussed by a violin player like zeryab, not someone like me), usually, if you switch between notes on the same bow stroke, you get legato playing, but Sahloun finds a way to articulate each note separately by striking his fingers on the fingerboard somehow (almost violently), and I believe this rapid striking and alteration of fingering on the same bow stroke is what allows him to get these rapid qaflat.

    Speaking of the Qaflat, he does some of the most amazing qaflat I have heard, and they are the type of qafla I call the: "sheikh kabbara qafla". It's very hard to pull off, and even Shawwa himself usually uses a lighter sort of qafla that relies on audience anticipation (I'd call it the sheikh ali mahmood qafla, for simplification). I have uploaded an example of the type of qafla I'm talking about (naturally, you can go faster on a violin), I'm sorry for the sound quality, but it should give you an idea what I mean.

    بيكفي فلسفة، مش هيك؟

    one last note, it would be interesting to compare the seyir of the huzzam here to the huzzam gazel by Hafiz Kemal bey. (I haven't gotten round to doing that).
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    آخر تعديل بواسطة 3amr ، 08-05-2007 الساعة 20:47

  6. #6
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Jul 2005
    الإقامة
    London
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    94

    إفتراضي Hi

    I don't agree about the "biyekfi" bit. You are a amazing!

  7. #7

    إفتراضي

    إقتباس المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة 3amr
    I will try to contribute,

    Speaking of the Qaflat, he does some of the most amazing qaflat I have heard, and they are the type of qafla I call the: "sheikh kabbara qafla". It's very hard to pull off, and even Shawwa himself usually uses a lighter sort of qafla that relies on audience anticipation (I'd call it the sheikh ali mahmood qafla, for simplification). I have uploaded an example of the type of qafla I'm talking about (naturally, you can go faster on a violin), I'm sorry for the sound quality, but it should give you an idea what I mean.

    بيكفي فلسفة، مش هيك؟

    one last note, it would be interesting to compare the seyir of the huzzam here to the huzzam gazel by Hafiz Kemal bey. (I haven't gotten round to doing that).
    Where on earth did you get this from, Amr?

    Never heard this Quaflat before!! Do you have the full recording?

    Absolutely bemuzed

  8. #8
    theoudman Guest

    إفتراضي

    I just got a chance to listen to the taqasims, you guys really left nothing to comment on.
    I especially like the bayati one starting at 2:30 where he hints to the shuri, and then at 2:53 to the end where he is in shuri.
    Thanks Fred for these beautiful tracks..

  9. #9
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Jul 2005
    الإقامة
    London
    المشاركات
    94

    إفتراضي Ha!

    @Hilal

    This is one of the rewards of having this forum :-)

    Mahmoud Zibawi introducing me to my father's missing recordings, and here,
    3amr introducing you to some of your father's recordings.

    Excellent!

  10. #10

    إفتراضي

    Absolutatotely, Najib

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