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الموضوع: هديّة العيد : الأوّله في الغرام من حديقة الأزبكيّة سنة 1947

  1. #1
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
    المشاركات
    18

    إفتراضي هديّة العيد : الأوّله في الغرام من حديقة الأزبكيّة سنة 1947

    لقد اعتقدنا دهرا أنّه لا يوجد لهذا اللّحن الخالد سوى تسجيل يتيم هو المتداول في الأسواق والإذاعات إلى أن تكرّم أخونا محمود الشّامي ورفع مقطعا منه في منتدى زرياب منذ أشهر ؛ وها نحن نرفع لكم التّسجيل كاملا بما فيه تقسيم العود للقصبجي الّتي استهلّت بها الأغنية ؛ فأرجو أن تستمتعوا بهذا التّسجيل وكلّ عام وأنتم بخير والمنتدى بخير والفنّ العربيّ الأصيل بخير تملأ أنغامه الدّنيا بفضلكم وبفضل حَفَظَته الكرام.


    El-'awwila fi-l-gharam composed by Zakariya 'ahmad and interpreted by 'um kalthum in a rare recording from a live concert in El-'azbakiya gardens in 1947
    الملفات المرفقة الملفات المرفقة
    أبو علاء

  2. #2
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Oct 2005
    المشاركات
    4

    إفتراضي

    Kul A'am Wata B-Kheir, Abu A'laa. This one-of-a-kind masterpiece is a treasure to start with it every new begenning, particularly when it's such a rare recording.
    I still feel bad that we will never hear another recording of Holm, which according to Mahmoud, was sung live only once by Om Kulthoum.

    Luay

  3. #3
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
    المشاركات
    18

    إفتراضي

    You're right Luay. It's a pity and almost incredible 'um kalthum left a single live recording of Hulm and twenty to thirty different live recordings of Ya dhalimni, with all due respect to Sunbati and his tube. But, is it not a greater pity a recording this one has been realeased twelve years ago and it yet hasn't stirred any reaction or rather any interest aprt from yours who already knew it?! It was downloaded only once. This is incredible! I know we have only fifty members (and a growing number of visiting guests), yet I can hardly believe it...
    To come back to the recording, it is so eloquently instructive. In this regard, I have at least two important obsevations. First, it is remarkable how outstanding 'um kalthum's performance was in the first twenty minutes of the recording. In listening to that part, I had the clear impression that it was a song I never heard before, whereas for the second half of the song, the commercialized recording clearly outperformed this one. At a certain point, I wondered whether it wouldn't be feasible to make a combination of both recordings to produce a third one which would combine the merits of the two of them! One can wonder here to which extent this phenomenon is attributable to the exceptional character of this composition of Zakariya. It would be as though 'um kalthum, who had a contentious with the composer precisely for her excessive improvisation in interpreting this one (at least, this was the official reason), was incapable of making such an even improvisation effort from the beginning to the end. Yet, we have a few examples which defeat such hypothesis. I'm thinking in particular of a certain performance of 'ahli-l-hawa ya lil. In fact, here comes a fundamental problem in the work of Art and literature which has always puzzled me. This is the fact that the quality of such work is in its very essence uneven and unsteady including in the most gifted and talented representatives of such disciplines. This applies to singers, composers, musicians, actors, authors....etc Such unsteadiness and unevenness are inherent to the human nature itself. My seoncd remark relates to originals and copies. To the genius and the poor imitator. I would swear none of us before the discovery of this recording would have imagined an interpretation of this song different from the one in the commercialized recording (a meaningful one, I mean). One singer, talented enough, (the Tunisian Sofia Sadiq) produced a recording of El-'awwila in which she almost succeded in reproducing literally 'um kalthum's performance in the known commercial recording. But she didn't bring in the smallest single touch of her own. Only, 'um kalthum was capable of singing it differently and yet as beautifully.
    أبو علاء

  4. #4
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Oct 2005
    المشاركات
    4

    إفتراضي

    Abu A'laa,
    I agree with you regarding people's reaction to this recording. To me, a few of Om Kulthoum's songs epitomize who she was and why she was (still is) Sayyedat Al Ghenaa Al A'rabi. And the first song to jump to mind in this short list of songs is El Awwela. Om Kulthmoum was simply phenomenal and sensational. And I'm not just talking about the improvisations; just listen to the flexibility of her voice, the tremblings she did... she basically could do anything she wanted to do with her voice.
    I have listened a few times to Sofia Sadeq's interpretations of this song. She did a darn good job, but she definitely couldn't do many of those "tremblings", other than one can't get the same feeling listening to her simply since she's just trying to copy Om Kulthoum as closely as possible, as you said.

    As for Holm, it's not that Om Kulthoum didn't like the song and/or preferred Ya Dhalimni. What I understood from Mahmoud is that the problems between Zakariya and OK started immediately after the first live recording of the song, and she had to stop singing his compositions (although I think she sang Al-Ahat again in the early 50's, which was the reason for them to go to court).

    As to why this recording hasn't stirred the reaction that you and I would have naturally expected (since we ourselves went "crazy" knowing that it existed) is simply and sadly (with all due respect to everyone) that people forgot these masterpieces and associate Om Kulthoum only with her latest songs, such as Ba'eed A'nnak, Enta Omri, etc.
    I recally the arugment you and I had with a participant on the zeryab forum a long time ago as to why we prefered the works of Qassabji, Sunbati, and Zakariya for Om Kulthoum over those of Wahab, Baligh, and Mougi. And she got so defensive (of course).
    If I'm not mistaken, I gave her as an example this very song: El Awwela. Many singers have sung Enta Omri and other songs with great performances (e.g., Wadee3 Essafi). However, no one can get close to Om Kulthoum in the "hard" songs: El Awwela, Gholobt Asaleh, Raqq El Habib. And now with the discovery of Ya Albi Bokra Essafar, I must admit: I've never heard such a complicated song in my life. I was listening to it again last night, and I had hard time following the complexities of the music. Which reminded me of your discussion of why Om Kulthoum stopped singing of Qassabji's compositions very early.

    Anyway, the goal of the forum is to spread the great music and for that you, Hatim, and Najib get all the credit. As for people's tastes, these probably can't be changed easily. I hope people will enjoy this song and this recording as much as I did, still do, and will always do.

    Finally: I agree with your comment the second half of the commercialized version of this song was a better performance. The part that "kills" me from the commercialized version is when she's about to finish the song, the way she sings the word "Mnein" in the part of "Wettanya Fel Emtethal Wessabre Amarooni Wageeboh Mnein" (and also the way she utters "Wageeboh", and particularly the "h" at the end). The audience applauds immediately after she says it for the first time (again, I'm talking about the time she sings this part at the end of the song, and not the beginning). But once again, She's Om Kulthoum, and they are Bayram and Zakariyya, so I think enough said.

    Best regards,
    Luay
    آخر تعديل بواسطة luay ، 02-11-2005 الساعة 16:14

  5. #5
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    البلاد المنخفضة.....Netherlands
    المشاركات
    8

    إفتراضي

    No haste ...these masterpieces take quite some time to digest ..especially to people who are not familiar with this side of oum kolthoum (and music of the era in general ) , or who are new to it ..like myself...

    Luay ,Qalby Bukra elsafar is indeed complicated ...will save talking about it later to its thread

  6. #6
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Oct 2005
    المشاركات
    4

    إفتراضي

    Well, Hatim, still no reaction to the song. Still unbelievable, and still, Abu A'laa's surprise is valid, and I'm shocked too!!!!
    To use Mahmoud's words, I would have killed to get this recording :-) (of course, I wouldn't kill for any reason!)
    Where are the Tarab listeners? This recording takes the backseat for other songs....
    shocking, to say the least.

    Luay

  7. #7
    AmbroseBierce Guest

    إفتراضي

    Thanks luay, for having posted on this thread - so it came up the line and finally caught my attention. This is indeed wonderful music. I used to listen to many of the Sono Cairo CD-editions of Umm Kalthoums songs and though there are many good and a couple of very good pieces also, sometimes I was not so sure why this singer was that, how to say, venerated? With this piece and a couple more I found in this forum I do understand that. It's really fantastic music - even without understanding the words.

    This brings me to a question: Is there such a thing as an Umm Kalthoum archive? I guess if you (I don't really mean someone around here personally) approach the right people, maybe Arabian sponsors (there are some rich people, even some among them interested in Arab culture in the Gulf States - for example a friend of mine works for a guy who just donated something like if I remember correctly seven million pound to Cambridge? Oxford? university to set up or enlarge a museum of Arab art), maybe UNESCO, maybe both, it would be possible to restore this kind of recordings, so as to have a better sound quality, and maybe even publish something close to a "complete works" sort of thing. Maybe that is a naive thought? I don't know, but it would be worthwhile, don't you think so?

  8. #8
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Jul 2005
    الإقامة
    London
    المشاركات
    94

    إفتراضي Hi Paul

    The whole gramophone archive is now owned by EMI and stored in Hayes (few minutes drive from where I live).

    There are five archive Umm Kulthum CDs (called la Diva). They come straight from this archive. Just imagine all the wonderful Dawrs and Taqatiq of Saleh Abdel Hay brought back to life straight from the 78 tours archive.

    Yes we need to setup a project. I will contact EMI just to ask what is their procedure for releasing some of the archive that they've got.

    Cheers
    Najib

  9. #9
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Oct 2005
    المشاركات
    4

    إفتراضي

    Hi Paul,
    Those guys you mention, with millions of dollars to spare, would probably donate the money to a dancer in a nightclub in Las Vegas before they donate it to a project on reviving the music of Om Kulthoum and others. Also, Egypt takes a large part of the blame!! Remember: they demolished OK's villa immediately upon her death, and now they went and rented some place to have a museum for her. The only great documentary about Om Kulthoum today is based on the only flawless book by Virginia Danielson, who's American and who wrote her PhD dissertation on Om Kulthoum at the University of Chicago. I've read about 15 Arabic books on Om Kulthoum; they are mostly stories that the authors invent, with the silliest mistakes about the correct lyricists/composers/etc.
    Finally, look at the tapes and CDs that the Arab sellers distribute; the tapes hardly have the names of lyricists/composers (since the singer is the most important part of the song in our culture!), and the CDs have tons of mistakes on them. Which ones have correct information? Ones from the UK, the US, and non-Arab countries!
    I'd love to have this forum and others up and running so that we finally enjoy great music and reliable information... I've lost hope a long time ago in the "authorities" you think we can appeal to!

    Best regards,
    Luay

  10. #10
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Oct 2005
    المشاركات
    4

    إفتراضي

    BTW Just to add one bit of information. I'm Palestinian, but with an Israeli passport. The Israeli radio broadcast more interesting recordings of Om Kulthoum's songs than many radio stations from Arab countries.
    The point I'm trying to make is that we are very bad at guarding our great musical heritage. The only things preserved in the Arab culture are related to religion; otherwise, it's considered useless, unfortunately.

    Luay

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