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الموضوع: dastgah and makam

  1. #1
    mary farris Guest

    إفتراضي dastgah and makam

    Hi-

    I'm a beginner to the world of Persian music, a somewhat-less-than beginner to the world of Turkish music, and I'm in search of some historical information about how Turkish makam is related to Persian dastgah. There are so many words, names of scales, etc that are the same (largely Persian adopted into Turkish vocabulary), but to my ears, for example, Turkish Segah doesn't resemble Persian Segah at all.

    At what point did the traditions diverge? Or if they never were that strictly related, why do they share so much vocabulary?

    I'm open to Arabic maqam, Azeri mugam, Central Asian versians being thrown into the mix...

    Thanks in advance!

    mary

  2. #2
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Jul 2005
    الإقامة
    London
    المشاركات
    94

    إفتراضي Hi

    Hi Mary,

    We don't know anyone who is an expert in Persian music here.

    Hopefully some members are and haven't made themselves known and they will reply to your query.

    Cheers
    Najib

  3. #3
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    البلاد المنخفضة.....Netherlands
    المشاركات
    8

    إفتراضي

    many of us have the same question ,and still looking for answers ,the problem is that experts of persian music mostly write about persian music ,not its relation with the other traditions .still to find such a comparitive study or at least opinions of people familiar with both traditions .
    آخر تعديل بواسطة Hattouma ، 09-05-2009 الساعة 02:37

  4. #4
    mary farris Guest

    إفتراضي

    Yes, I'm surprised there's not more overlap between the two worlds, people who are deeply knowledgeable in both traditions- but I keep looking!

  5. #5
    mary farris Guest

    إفتراضي

    Someone sent me this link, which provides some interesting Persian/Turkish classical music relations...

    http://www.showqname.com/intro.htm

  6. #6
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Jul 2005
    الإقامة
    London
    المشاركات
    94

    إفتراضي HI

    Indeed you are so right to wonder why.

    I know a bit about Turkish music.

    I know that the main important mevlevi pieces are all written in Parsi and I know that the name of the makams are also derived from Persian.

    Even Nahawand is a city in Iran!!

    I have to admit that when I played Oud with Persian musicians (a tanbur and duduk players) I couldn't grasp the overlap between the makams at all :-(

  7. #7
    greengrass Guest

    إفتراضي

    Hello friends,
    I see that in the west we are always trying to understand everything, but this subject is
    really important because unites different cultures, and through music we can find a good
    language to share.
    A very interesting article on this subject is:
    ON THE MUSICAL SCALE OF VARIOUS NATIONS- Alexander Ellis 1885
    easily available on line

  8. #8
    MORIN Guest

    إفتراضي

    إقتباس المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة greengrass مشاهدة مشاركة
    Hello friends,
    I see that in the west we are always trying to understand everything, but this subject is
    really important because unites different cultures, and through music we can find a good
    language to share.
    A very interesting article on this subject is:
    ON THE MUSICAL SCALE OF VARIOUS NATIONS- Alexander Ellis 1885
    easily available on line
    can you give us the url for this please.

    morin

  9. #9
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
    المشاركات
    18

    إفتراضي

    إقتباس المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة MORIN مشاهدة مشاركة
    can you give us the url for this please.
    إقتباس المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة MORIN مشاهدة مشاركة

    morin
    Morin,"easily available online" means all you have to do is to google the title and you'll get it. Here you are.

    On the Musical Scales of Various Nations - Alexander Ellis - 1885

    This is a transcription, with transcriber's corrections, of a reproduction of Ellis's article, the original having been published in 1885 in the now defunct Journal of the Society of Arts. This transcriber (Stuart Frazier Allen) worked from a photocopy of a reproduction published in A Century of Ethnomusicological Thought: (The Garland Library of Readings in Ethnomusicology: A Core Collection of Important Ethnomusicological Articles, Vol. 7), edited by Kay Kaufman Shelemay.
    Each of the 16 sections of the 43 page article (pp. 485-527) is represented here as a single web page.
    I- Introduction
    II- Musical Scales
    III- Cents
    IV- Theory and Practice
    First Division: Heptatonic Scales
    V- Ancient Greece and Modern Europe
    VI- Persia, Arabia, Syria, and Scottish Highlands
    VII- India
    VIII- Singapore
    IX- Burmah
    X- Siam
    XI- Western Africa
    Second Division: Pentatonic Scales
    XII- South Pacific
    XIII- Java
    XIV- China
    XV- Japan
    XVI- Conclusion
    آخر تعديل بواسطة أبو علاء ، 07-06-2009 الساعة 11:03
    أبو علاء

  10. #10
    greengrass Guest

    إفتراضي

    Excuse me, I don't know the way to send this URL, but it will be better next time to send

    the article. Anyway I think it's very interesting. Thank you

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