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الموضوع: لغز الشّيخ محمّد رفعت

  1. #11
    علي ناجي Guest

    إفتراضي

    After re-reading your earlier posts and Abu Alala`s posts, carefully this time, I think I see your point.

    My mistake was comparing him to Mustafa Isma`eel when they actually belonged to two different schools.

    I will listen to it again.

    Thank you for uploading it.

    PS. I don't see Yousif's name in the forum index? Does he not have any nasheed/quran recordings?

  2. #12
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Mar 2006
    الإقامة
    California
    المشاركات
    7

    إفتراضي

    Dear Ali,

    Sheikh Yusuf did not record any non-secular recordings, his main career was as a secular mutrib.

  3. #13
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
    المشاركات
    18

    إفتراضي

    I've been following this very interesting debate without daring intervene because I lack too much information to be in a position to make a significant contribution. First of all, audio material. I know that there is some of it among the 78 rpm records. But we have no access to it pending AMAR's collection digitizing, unless Frédéric can provide something. The same Fred published a paper on the question (quran recitation) that was initially delivered in a symposium. I have just asked him to post it or give me a download link. However, it is probably written in French and would therefore not be accessible to all those who are interested.
    This said, I suppose I can venture and formulate a couple of remarks.
    The question of knowing how developed was recitation in the late nineteenth/early twentieth is a very important yet problematic one. On the one hand, judging of the state of development of secular art in the same era and given the fact that the performers of the latter have all or most of them been performers of the former, one can reasonably expect recitation to have been as much developed as secular vocal art. On the other hand, the very restrictive and prescriptive context recitation was bound to warrants reservations on the validity of the last assertion. As a matter of fact, we do know out of direct experience based on the state of quran recitation nowadays as compared to that of secular singing that there's no correlation between the two of them. If I were to situate recitation at present with secular singing, I would say it more or less corresponds to the singing of 1940-1950.
    We might have different appreciations of the qualities of Rif'at recitation. This is only normal as it so happens in so many other instances, including significant differences. Remember Hilal's opinion concerning Muhammad 'imran! In this particular case, we can't carry this debate too far in view of the scarcity of good recordings of this recitor before he got hit by illness.
    As for superlatives and statements of the sort of "the greatest recitor in his time or in all times", you know how precarious this kind of assertions can be. Even in the case of 'um kalthum, you'll remember the long discussions that were held here regarding here and Fathiya, and nobody has had the chance the famous Almaz. You shouldn't forget that Shaykh Mustafa's greatnes was far from being undisputed. Starting from a certain date (mid-sixties?) he was no longer considered the "greatest" or, at least, he was no longer the most popular, supplanted by a recitor who, compared to him, is a sort of 'abdi-l-wahhab compared to Salih 'abdi-l-hay, if you see what I mean.
    It would be interesting to study the mechanism of artistic myths creation in contemporary Egypt (an instresting subject for a thesis, don't you think so?) with examples like 'um kalthum, Sayyid Darwish, Muhammad Rif'at and... 'abdi-l-basit 'abdi-s-samad! But this pertains more to sociology of entertainement than to musicology or musical critcism.
    آخر تعديل بواسطة أبو علاء ، 15-08-2010 الساعة 19:09
    أبو علاء

  4. #14
    Bassio Guest

    إفتراضي

    This is a most interesting discussion.

    Given my personal experience with whom I know, I think abualaa's point is rather correct. I have found that Sheikh Rifaat has no popularity compared to Abdelbaset Abdelsamad, and (with the added problem of low quality and scarce recordings), I might also add that he is considered popular with only the fewest few of people I happen to know! Yes it is true that many people know his name, given his constant recordings on the Quran Karim Radio, but few prefer to listen to him. In fact, the peer pressure effect Aly Nagi is referring to, is only evident with Abdelbaset, and later on with some Khaliji reciters like Rashed El-affassi, as far as I have witnessed.

    As for his performance style, I will stand by 3amr's opinions here, he is certainly a favorite of mine. His long recordings are examples of a very fine building with a highly organized structure. The absence of his "provocativeness" is perhaps related to his self-effacing nature, for the higher purpose of highlighting the meaning of the text. His art is very subtle.

    (although comparison may be inappropriate, but perhaps it is like comparing a well-thought Manyalawi dawr performance with a shorter but a 'crazier' performance of Hilmi)

    As for timbre, I very much like his voice, especially his bass!! And I would like to hear your personal opinions on his timbre (vs the performance style) compared to other reciters.

    I would like to recommend my favorite recordings of his:
    Al-Israa[1-22], Qisar al sowar and if I remember correctly Al-An3am[88-101].

    If it was permissible, perhaps I may upload it or perhaps send it in pm to whoever wants these files.

  5. #15
    Bassio Guest

    إفتراضي

    إقتباس المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة أبو علاء مشاهدة مشاركة
    [LEFT][SIZE=2]First of all, audio material. I know that there is some of it among the 78 rpm records. But we have no access to it pending AMAR's collection digitizing,
    Can you elaborate abualaa, are you referring to Sheikh Rifaat's audio recordings?

  6. #16
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
    المشاركات
    18

    إفتراضي

    إقتباس المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة Bassio مشاهدة مشاركة
    Can you elaborate abualaa, are you referring to Sheikh Rifaat's audio recordings?

    Not necessarily. I mean any quran recitation recordings and I'm not at all sure there are any 78rpm records by Rif'a.
    I can't encourage quran recitation uploads for the reasons previously discussed in the sticky you should all know. However, if you think you do have one or two samples in line with the gist of the thread and comparable to the one on which 'amr based his development, go ahead!
    آخر تعديل بواسطة أبو علاء ، 15-08-2010 الساعة 19:18
    أبو علاء

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