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الموضوع: Dimitri Coutya

  1. #11
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Mar 2006
    الإقامة
    California
    المشاركات
    7

    إفتراضي

    Dear Abu Ala',
    There have been attempts to formulate some sort of system of associating modes with moods and so on. Needless to say, they don't work because they don't match the practice of the finest representatives of this field.

    It seems there is absolutely no set system for matching melody to meaning. What there is however is a sensitivity to the text, whereby the singer would feel the emotions associated with the text he's singing and translate those into his performance. How that takes place is a deeply personal issue for each performer. What such a performer cannot do however, is engage in acrobatics where there it would be awkward or tasteless, or bring the melody to a climax where there is no climax in the text for example. These are simple common sense considerations.

    This is like umm kulthum's soft repitition of "hakitlak", or hilmi's "wi yimkin yisadif yom". Expressive devices are clearly employed to bring more power to the performance.

    This is of course only one of the elements of tarabic sung performance, and usually a minor one. What I think Najib is saying is that his father emphasized that element above others out of respect for the holy nature of the text. His father's greatness I think lies in his ability to bring that off while maintaining the highest standards of vocal and musical performance.

  2. #12
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
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    18

    إفتراضي

    إقتباس المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة 3amr مشاهدة مشاركة
    Dear Abu Ala',
    إقتباس المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة 3amr مشاهدة مشاركة
    There have been attempts to formulate some sort of system of associating modes with moods and so on. Needless to say, they don't work because they don't match the practice of the finest representatives of this field.

    It seems there is absolutely no set system for matching melody to meaning. What there is however is a sensitivity to the text, whereby the singer would feel the emotions associated with the text he's singing and translate those into his performance. How that takes place is a deeply personal issue for each performer. What such a performer cannot do however, is engage in acrobatics where there it would be awkward or tasteless, or bring the melody to a climax where there is no climax in the text for example. These are simple common sense considerations.

    I quote fully. What worried me is that Najib mentioned his "making music match meaning" in a context in which the main topic is the use of certain maqam(s) (rast) in church chant in addition to such dangerous assertion as "Arabic tarab isn't that expressionist".
    أبو علاء

  3. #13
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Mar 2006
    الإقامة
    California
    المشاركات
    7

    إفتراضي

    Rast is one of the most common modes in church chant I think, I wonder if someone may confirm.

    I think the novel thing about this performance is the wonderfully tarabic phrasing, which is not the usual sort of chanting.

    In any case, Tarab music is expressive, but it usually isn't "expressionist".

  4. #14
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Feb 2007
    الإقامة
    Dubai - ex Lebanon
    المشاركات
    2

    إفتراضي

    Most of the Syriac liturgical chanting is in bayati mode and it is one of the most ancient christian liturgy. does it help ?

  5. #15
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Oct 2005
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    4

    إفتراضي

    Thank you Najib. What a beautiful voice, indeed.

    Luay

  6. #16
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Jul 2005
    الإقامة
    London
    المشاركات
    94

    إفتراضي Hi

    Sorry guys I missed your wonderful comments here.

    To elaborate what I meant is a combination of notes and choice of makams. So unlike a "mutrib" in the nahdaesque meaning where the importance is on the tasarrufat and the mastership of "sikak maqamiyyeh", he continued what Mitri el Morr started before him of making the maqams, the notes, the gawabat match and emphasize the meanings of the words.

    Yes Mohsen I guess there are big similarities with some styles of quran recitations of which both Mitris were never ignorant.

    Of course I'm not saying the arabic tarab is void of expressionism, but in my dad's compositions his focus was a lot on the meaning whilst cleverly using his knowlege of maqams.

    So for example if the words express heaven you might expect an ascent to gawab, if they express hell you might expect a descent to qarar. If the talk is about suffering, judgement there will be a lot of use of the 6th mode (hicaz - in a heavy and slow manner). If it talks about resurrection and hope, you would expect more majeur or light mineur use.

    Kamal (and 3amr) yes the syriac have heavy use of bayat (or let's say a bayat with a special sigah) but this is not the case in byzantine music. In byzantine music like Ottoman music, like arabic music, a lot stem from the rast (the 8th tone). Everyone learns the music starting from that tune and then they learn how to modulate. This is why the singing, in my opinion, is much richer and way less monotonous.

    I will upload more soon.
    آخر تعديل بواسطة Najib ، 21-03-2010 الساعة 00:12


    روحي الفداء لكلّ كفءٍ عارفٍ............أهوي على قدميه غير مبال
    أتريد معرفة الجحيم بكنهها؟............إن الجحيم لصحبة الجهّال
    Mustapha Said - Rubaiyyat

  7. #17
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Jul 2005
    الإقامة
    London
    المشاركات
    94

    إفتراضي Another Rast example

    This is from an epistle reading. It is Rast which is the common mode of reading these epistles but notice all the beautiful colourings like Kerdan (delnishin) and Bayat Nawa.
    الملفات المرفقة الملفات المرفقة
    آخر تعديل بواسطة Najib ، 21-03-2010 الساعة 13:05


    روحي الفداء لكلّ كفءٍ عارفٍ............أهوي على قدميه غير مبال
    أتريد معرفة الجحيم بكنهها؟............إن الجحيم لصحبة الجهّال
    Mustapha Said - Rubaiyyat

  8. #18
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
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    18

    إفتراضي

    Where's the file, Najib?
    Bayati colouring, including bayati nawa, was also present in the first sample you uploaded along with suznak, and kirdan - gawab rast, not dilinshin.
    أبو علاء

  9. #19
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Jul 2005
    الإقامة
    London
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    94

    إفتراضي HI

    Sorry mate it took ages to upload the file today!


    روحي الفداء لكلّ كفءٍ عارفٍ............أهوي على قدميه غير مبال
    أتريد معرفة الجحيم بكنهها؟............إن الجحيم لصحبة الجهّال
    Mustapha Said - Rubaiyyat

  10. #20
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
    المشاركات
    18

    إفتراضي

    إقتباس المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة Najib مشاهدة مشاركة
    This is from an epistle reading. It is Rast which is the common mode of reading these epistles but notice all the beautiful colourings like Kerdan (delnishin) and Bayat Nawa.
    I beg to differ, Najib, it's not rast that I hear here, but 'agam, and what comes around min 1' 19" is saba as a standard colouring from 'agam. We have various other interesting colouring and variations (a very subtle one ca min 1' 03-04" in higaz if I'm not mistaken - which would give us shawq 'afza), but the predominant mode is definitely 'agam. .
    أبو علاء

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