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الموضوع: Ahli-l-Hawa: 25 March 1948

  1. #1
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Oct 2005
    المشاركات
    4

    إفتراضي Ahli-l-Hawa: 25 March 1948

    Posted on YouTube by Issa Mitri. The sound quality is not great, but it does imply a recording from the 40's. What the lady does is mesmerizing. This was the first time I hear this version and what she does is different from the improvisations we'd hear years later in the 50's performances of this jewel.

    Hope you enjoy it.

    Luay
    الملفات المرفقة الملفات المرفقة

  2. #2
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
    المشاركات
    18

    إفتراضي

    إقتباس المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة luay مشاهدة مشاركة
    Posted on YouTube by Issa Mitri. The sound quality is not great, but it does imply a recording from the 40's. What the lady does is mesmerizing. This was the first time I hear this version and what she does is different from the improvisations we'd hear years later in the 50's performances of this jewel.
    This is indeed an important discovery, whatever the real date is, despite the bad quality of the recording. I tried to improve it, at least by removing some of the hiss. However, I don't know the extent of my success (file attached). A couple of days ago, in a totally different discussion (about the dawr genre) Frederic came up with the notion of "compositional improvisation" (I'm not sure whether my "improvised" translation does justice to the concept behind the term he used), and, here, we have an outstanding example of the notion in question as it is the case in other outstanding performances such as raqqi-l-habib January 52, el-'amal January 50 or 'ahli-l-hawa May 1956.
    The main instance of this is situated between ca min. 2'20" and 9"30 (another one of lesser extent comes later on when she extrapolates on the sikah section) and what happens in these instances is that the singer takes ownership of the "text" (here the composed melody) and immediately departs from it to invent his/her own melody/composition so that the new (instantly) created melody becomes the text/prevailing composition, thus reducing the original one to the auxiliary role of a mere "pre-text" (no wonder this could presumably be one of the contentious points in the litigation between Zakariya and 'um kalthum). This kind of process was specific to the dawr and was only accessible to a few of the most seasoned interpreters from the nahdha school such as Manyalawi or Hilmi. In their case, it was almost the rule, while, with 'um kalthum, such moments, however frequent, remained an exception to the normal course of the whole interpretation. From this point of view, the remarkable performances by 'um kalthum of such "modern" songs in live concerts were no more (but no less) than reminiscent traces of an extinct learned (nahdha) music genre i.e the dawr, and 'um kalthum is in my view the (late) last representative of the classical school and its aesthetics.
    It is often asserted that those "excursuses" were only made possible owing to the nature and quality of Zakariya's compositions. Nevertheless, I partially disagree with that assertion. While I do recognise that the kind of compositions Zakariya and also Qasabgi (at least raqqi-l-habib and ya qalbi bukra-s-safar) did lend themselves to that kind of exercise more than Sunbati's, I still believe that the most decisive part is owed to 'um kalthum herself through her exceptional vocal capabilities, her culture and her genius. As long as she was in full possession of those faculties and had the required mental and physical . strengths, she could do it including while interpreting the most down-to-earth melodies like ya dhalimni. This was the case during the thirties, the fourties and well into the fifties (probably up to the late middle fifties" before those capabilities started receding progressively to the point when they totally vanished sometime in the early sixties.

    الملفات المرفقة الملفات المرفقة
    أبو علاء

  3. #3
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Mar 2006
    الإقامة
    Paris, France
    المشاركات
    1

    إفتراضي

    على خلاف «سنوات الاكتشاف» في العقد الأول من قرننا الفتي، حين كانت إذاعة الأغاني تغدق علينا بالعطايا ولا يكاد يمر اسبوع دون أن نكتشف حفلة مبهرة جديدة تقلب رأسا على عقب تصوراتنا لفن أم كلثوم، فقد صار الحصول على حفلة «جديدة» أمر نادر بل استثنائي.
    أنا مستعد لإطلاق الزغاريد ليلة كاملة احتفاءً للعثور على صيغة جديدة لإسأل روحك فما بالكم بفرحتي وفرحتنا جميعا عند الحصول على تسجيل مغمور لأهل الهوى

    كما أن تسجيل فبراير 61 ل«هو صحيح الهوى غلاب» يبدو أنه «بروفة» للأفكار التي ستطورها ثومة في الرباط بعد ذلك بسبع سنوات، فإن هذه الحفلة تحتوي على بعض عناصر «أم الصيغ» عندي، أي حفلة مايو 1956، بل فيها بعض
    الحركات لم تُعدها أم كلثوم بعد ذلك، خاصة في قسم يطولوك يا ليل ويقصروك يا ليل
    أما قسم ناس من قلوب تقول فسحر حلال، خاصة من الدقيقة 25 حتى 27، والانتقالل للبياتي (ثم صبا) في
    27:06
    حفلة بديعة

    حاولت تنقية الصوت وما توصلت إليه أريح من الوثيقة الأصلية، ولكن الجودة التقنية مع الأسف متدنية جدا


    الملفات المرفقة الملفات المرفقة

  4. #4
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Mar 2006
    الإقامة
    Paris, France
    المشاركات
    1

    إفتراضي

    إقتباس المشاركة الأصلية بواسطة أبو علاء مشاهدة مشاركة

    This was the case during the thirties, the fourties and well into the fifties (probably up to the late middle fifties" before those capabilities started receding progressively to the point when they totally vanished sometime in the early sixties.

    I would disagree with this harsh timeline, as always. Indeed, the music of the 1960s is not comparable to this of the 40s and 50s, but Umm Kulthum managed to remember who she was until the end, at least once a year, and made the most of what was left of her voice, relying on her genius and her new "majestic" tone. There are no El Awwela fel Gharam in the 60s, but there are magic moments, too many to be counted : Be3id 3annak Tunis 1968, Howwa sahih Rabat 1968, and the Première of Ya msahharni 1972 with the 3 impros in a row... But I am men darawish el sett, so I forgive her everything.




  5. #5
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Oct 2005
    المشاركات
    4

    إفتراضي

    Glad, though not surprised, you liked it gentlemen. I tend to agree with Fred about the improvisations in the 60's. In fact, I recently heard a version of Ba'eed A'nnak that had much nicer improvisations than the Tunis one. He improvisations in the Kuwait Al-Atlal and Fat El-Mea'ad were very nice as well. And many, many more. But, as you said, within the limitations of her 60's voice.

    Best,
    Luay

  6. #6

    إفتراضي

    روعه!غاية في المتعه!الله إ خليك،سيد luay!ومن معك.

  7. #7
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Sep 2005
    الإقامة
    Vienna, Austria
    المشاركات
    18

    إفتراضي

    Hey guys! I am talking about what the lady did with sihirti 'astannak and wi'ih yifidi-z-zaman in January 1952 and you say ba'id 'annak! I am not talking of improvisation or even "compositional" improvisation in general, otherwise I can mention plenty of instances, including outstanding ones (listen to bukra liyyam tibqa ganna, 'alashan biddak tirdhini, Sudan Ship 1954!). What I am talking about is something that has no possible equivalent other than what Manyalawi, Hilmi or Hamuli did in the salamlik sessions...
    أبو علاء

  8. #8
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Oct 2005
    المشاركات
    4

    إفتراضي

    I need to clarify what I meant to say :-) I wasn't comparing Raqq El-Habeeb to Ba'eed A'nnak, or the lady's performance in the two. But I was just saying that her genuine attempts at good improvisations last almost until the very end of her singing career, despite the limited vocal capabilities.

    Best,
    Luay

  9. #9
    تاريخ التسجيل
    Oct 2005
    المشاركات
    4

    إفتراضي

    Arabionaute,
    The thanks go to Issa Mitri. I don't know where he got this from (I hope his source has more interesting recordings).

    Luay

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